Your post has started an interesting discussion. In my view the succesfull teams in football were historically from the larger conurbations. Sky money has changed this. Any team either on low crowds ( Bournemouth ) or poor areas ( Burnley ) can survive in the top flight. However to be really succesfull requires wealthy investors. These people are invariably from overseas. Years ago they would be local mill or factory owners and an important industrial powerhouse such as Sunderland could compete with the best. Even in an era of the maximum wage Sunderland could break the British transfer record and induce players by illegal payments. In fact the clubs of the North had an advantage over London in the Victorian and Edwardian era because footballers were better suited to topping up their wage by taking jobs in manufacturing rather than the clerical professional based jobs that were in the south. As the south became affluent and the north was deindustrialised clubs in the south could charge more for season tickets and attract better sponsorship. Arsenal and Spurs will always now generate massive non sky income in a way they could not 50 year ago. So my conclusion ? Sky has turned football on its head to the extent that any team from any city or town can survive in the top flight but to be really succesfull then a club should be the right location to generate non sky income and wealthy investors. Sunderland and Newcastle are not.
Socio-economic size relative to football league status
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Your post has started an interesting discussion. In my view the succesfull teams in football were historically from the larger conurbations. Sky money has changed this. Any team either on low crowds ( Bournemouth ) or poor areas ( Burnley ) can survive in the top flight. However to be really succesfull requires wealthy investors. These people are invariably from overseas. Years ago they would be local mill or factory owners and an important industrial powerhouse such as Sunderland could compete with the best. Even in an era of the maximum wage Sunderland could break the British transfer record and induce players by illegal payments. In fact the clubs of the North had an advantage over London in the Victorian and Edwardian era because footballers were better suited to topping up their wage by taking jobs in manufacturing rather than the clerical professional based jobs that were in the south. As the south became affluent and the north was deindustrialised clubs in the south could charge more for season tickets and attract better sponsorship. Arsenal and Spurs will always now generate massive non sky income in a way they could not 50 year ago. So my conclusion ? Sky has turned football on its head to the extent that any team from any city or town can survive in the top flight but to be really succesfull then a club should be the right location to generate non sky income and wealthy investors. Sunderland and Newcastle are not.
Scum is a small part of hants ... With lots of countryside around it... POMPEY Surrounding areas are all urban or industrial... We got bigger conurbation than the pony lovers..
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Deleted member 42657
Guest
Thanks for the perspectives. As you acknowledged it was intended to create debate, as this is a discussion board.
I rarely start a post and it has been stark to notice how many people (unlike yourself) seem to retort with anger and aggression. A lot of people went off on a complete tangent about Newcastle not realising the fundamental difference between city and conurbation populations.
My only contention with your conclusion is that Newcastle and Sunderland could aspire to be above their current station. perhaps Newcastle top half of Premier League and Sunderland competing for Premiership status. Why not? I think both have one considerable (traditional) advantage in that their home support can be more partisan and intimidating than most. The proverbial 12th man is worth a few points.
Thanks for the sarcasm.
We should be proud that our region has a city that does attract people to the centre to enjoy the atmosphere. Although buzzin’ is not a tag-line I would choose.
As an employer in the North East it is tragic that there is a brain drain to the South East. Newcastle is fighting that trend and there has been more inward migration to the city centre than most cities in recent years.
Fortunately, it has not succumbed to the homogeneous charity shops, take aways and discounters that engulfed a lot of high streets in this country.
I’m taking my kids down to see Fenwicks Window and have a go on the Toboggan ride. Might even buy an over priced beer or two at the pop up bar outside Grey’s monument.
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Voted
must have missed that reference
safccfas
Winger
Voted
Not really sure why I used the word ‘voted’, there was no vote. It’s from a BBC report this summer which cites ‘government findings’.
Thanks. Yes I think that both clubs are underachieving and have the potential to be in the top half of the premier. However they need the right people in charge. Sunderland are in turmoil and hopefully transition and only now for example are sorting out their scouting network.Newcastle are stuck with an owner who will accept mere survival. The problem with fans up here is that most have unrealistic expectations.This I think is a legacy of success in past years when our area was known as the hotbed of soccer .
sir rowell cummins
Striker
People need to consider the decline on Wearside under austerity when they vote but some planks will be voting for the private healthcare gang.
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Deleted member 42657
Guest
sir rowell cummins
Striker
Which is why it worries me people will go Brexit party. As if Farage or Johnson give a flying shite about the regeneration of Sunderland/ deprived northern towns.
PompeyFan657
Goalkeeper
This is the thing though, that's a disadvantage as much as an advantage. If I'm a Saudi billionaire or whatever, if I look at Bournemouth I see a team in the Premier League, where I get to play them against top teams, and I can fly in to London from Dubai or wherever and get to the stadium in a car in 90 mins or a private jet to Bournemouth airport in probably 20 mins, and its by the sea so I can take my private yacht out too for the weekend, and I've got a nice middle class place with nearby golf courses and stuff to take my business partners after games
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it’s not a great tbh, but interesting. Thing is, it’s too flawed to be anywhere near an accurate table.
For a start, Liverpool players will be just as near to Manchester sometimes. Likewise, Southampton gets the benefit of being close to London (well an hour on the train).
PompeyFan657
Goalkeeper
It's a bigger thing for players at this level tbh, because unlike in the Premier League, there is less incentive to move, a lot of southern based league one and below players literally will not move house. For example Brett Pitman still hasn't moved out of Bournemouth yet in his career, at least one of the Pompey players lives in London.
I heard it's why you couldn't sign Lyle Taylor too, he wanted a lot to leave London
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Deleted member 42657
Guest
If you come from the Gulf and are an oil billionaire you have your own jet and can fly wherever the hell you like.
A mysterious Gulf Jet is seen from time to time at Newcastle airport. Some random Sheik who likes to go on a pheasant shoot in Northumberland (apparently).
These people are not looking at the flight schedules between Qatar and Heathrow!
A previous poster commented how remarkable it was how many people have misunderstood the original thread. I fear you have.
At no point was this about players, it was about populations and where the largest (and emerging) fan bases are.
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Deleted member 42657
Guest
Because those areas with the biggest populations have a socio-economic advantage that may (or may not) be translating to a more defined order of things.whys the title say relative to league status then?
What on Earth is proving so difficult to grasp in that thesis. It ultimately is a question posed for discussion.
and I answered in a discussive manner, not my fault your knickers are in a twist over that
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Deleted member 42657
Guest
You answered talking about players in Liverpool and Manchester which was completely beside the point.
it’s how I interpreted the thread title and even said it was an interesting discussion.No need to get aggressive just because someone offered a different opinion on your thread.
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Deleted member 42657
Guest
OK, the aggression was not intended. Sometimes written words lack intonation. My apologies.
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