SACK MOTT!

[Voice of fair play]

Remember ,Stokes put himself forward for the job and there wasn't_any viable alternative so I hardly think it can be claimed as a master stroke. Not so sure that there were many alternatives to McCullum either. Wasn't_Langer rumoured to having turned it down?.
Key expresses some garbage views imo. His views on the pace attack for the Ashes being one.

Yeah for Stokes fair point, that agreeably wasn’t a masterstroke as he was next on the rank, but it was a masterstroke to appoint McCullum as coach, there were others on for the job and other good options Gary Kirsten was interested for one.

McCullum was a bit of a left field choice as most would have thought he would have been appointed one day coach as previously no experience coaching test sides, it was a risk but a great choice imo

The McCullum decision changed the whole culture and way of playing which was badly needed and I could be wrong but it would been McCullum who got Stokes on side to play the way that not only transformed our fortunes but also made us brilliant to watch

I'm not sure. Aside from winning a few low key series in an entertaining way, what have the Test side actually achieved?

The won 3-0 in a away series in Pakistan where they had not won a series for years and never 3-0

Playing a brand of cricket most side they could not pull off after the previous brilliant summer.

The first test in Pakistan where the scored 400 and odd on the first day and pulled off a win on one of the flattest wicket you will ever see was one of the best test performances in years

 

[Mr Redknapp]

No one will ever convince that Buttler is a good capt, and Mott isn't a complete and utter fraud at this level

Where as I agree, this England team is not the all conquering team of 5 years ago. Other teams eventually catch them up and some other nation takes the lead as the best in the world imo

 

[Parkside]

Yeah for Stokes fair point, that agreeably wasn’t a masterstroke as he was next on the rank, but it was a masterstroke to appoint McCullum as coach, there were others on for the job and other good options Gary Kirsten was interested for one.

McCullum was a bit of a left field choice as most would have thought he would have been appointed one day coach as previously no experience coaching test sides, it was a risk but a great choice imo

The McCullum decision changed the whole culture and way of playing which was badly needed and I could be wrong but it would been McCullum who got Stokes on side to play the way that not only transformed our fortunes but also made us brilliant to watch

The won 3-0 in a away series in Pakistan where they had not won a series for countless years!

Playing a brand of cricket most side they could not pull off after the previous brilliant summer.

The first test in Pakistan where the scored 400 and odd on the first day and pulled off a win on one of the flattest wicket you will ever see was one of the best test performances in years

Not surprisingly I'm not as effusive as you about MC Cullum. I'll await ashes in Australia before my final conversion. To be fair he has admitted to some shortcomings in his methodology. I await expectingly.

 

[Voice of fair play]

I'm not sure. Aside from winning a few low key series in an entertaining way, what have the Test side actually achieved?

You must see it differently from me as that’s South Africa and India beaten at home with a brilliant positive cricket and Pakistan away 3-0.

Unless we classing every other series apart from Aussies and India away as low key??

And even in the Ashes we would have won that series as well against the best side in the world but for 2 days of rain.

Fair enough we got battered of India in India as every side does.

So I would say the test side has achieved plenty

Not surprisingly I'm not as effusive as you about MC Cullum. I'll await ashes in Australia before my final conversion. To be fair he has admitted to some shortcomings in his methodology. I await expectingly.

I am actually think that a positive mate that McCullum has accepted certain things can be adapted as he a intelligent coach.

 

[Parkside]

You must see it differently from me as that’s South Africa and India beaten at home with a brilliant positive cricket and Pakistan away 3-0.

Unless we classing every other series apart from Aussies and India away as low key??

And even in the Ashes we would have won that series as well against the best side in the world but for 2 days of rain.

Fair enough we got battered of India in India as every side does.

So I would say the test side has achieved plenty

I am actually think that a positive mate that McCullum has accepted certain things can be adapted as he a intelligent coach.

Nowadays all series apart from India and Australia ARE low key.Pakistan are so inconsistent any contest against them has to be viewed with scepticism.
McCollum is a breath of fresh air and the fact that things are always under review is a further positive.

 

[Voice of fair play]

Nowadays all series apart from India and Australia ARE low key.Pakistan are so inconsistent any contest against them has to be viewed with scepticism.
McCollum is a breath of fresh air and the fact that things are always under review is a further positive.

I think extremely harsh that mate, to say we have not achieved much, we win against India and South Africa at home comfortably and Pakistan away 3-0 , rain stops us winning the Ashes against the current test champions we get beat in India as every side does during his regime and a poster says what have we actually achieved.

Maybe I have lower expectations than other people but that pretty good in my book.

I kind of agree up to a point with Pakistan been inconsistent but that first test win on that flat wicket where in years gone by would a been a absolute certain draw deserves very very high praise imo.

I do agree mind at times McCullum and this England side do need to rein it in at times and a positive he has accepted that.

It’s always good to accept mistakes have been made and change that than been constantly stubborn in your approach

 

[mackembhoy]

You must see it differently from me as that’s South Africa and India beaten at home with a brilliant positive cricket and Pakistan away 3-0.

Unless we classing every other series apart from Aussies and India away as low key??

And even in the Ashes we would have won that series as well against the best side in the world but for 2 days of rain.

Fair enough we got battered of India in India as every side does.

So I would say the test side has achieved plenty

I am actually think that a positive mate that McCullum has accepted certain things can be adapted as he a intelligent coach.

We failed to win 3 series against teams ranked above us at the time of playing them. NZ (A) Aus (H) and Ind (A)

It's a massive improvement in how we played under Root. We're an average team that's punched above it's weight let's be honest, as exciting as it's been. But we ain't exactly the Strauss side are we. Still plenty of work to do for me.

All 3 of them series could have finished very different if we'd tweaked our style even a fraction to the game situation.

I guess it depends on what you consider success. I like beating teams better than us not drawing and losing series. I know you can't win every series but not winning any of them when they were opportunities to is a failure. The rain in ashes is a flimsy excuse when they failed to play the occasion in the first two.

Pakistan was 1.5 years ago now and that was the pinnacle of this side we've not played anywhere near as good consistently since.

The test team is still obviously a success from where it was but you can't just keep repeating that forever.

At some point it has to change. I think this next 18 months will decide if they are a good or great side.

I really hope it's the latter. Hopefully can replicate that first period under Stokes the way we played against NZ at H and Pakistan A.

 

[Voice of fair play]

We failed to win 3 series against teams ranked above us at the time of playing them. NZ (A) Aus (H) and Ind (A)

It's a massive improvement in how we played under Root. We're an average team that's punched above it's weight let's be honest, as exciting as it's been. But we ain't exactly the Strauss side are we. Still plenty of work to do for me.

All 3 of them series could have finished very different if we'd tweaked our style even a fraction to the game situation.

I guess it depends on what you consider success. I like beating teams better than us not drawing and losing series. I know you can't win every series but not winning any of them when they were opportunities to is a failure. The rain in ashes is a flimsy excuse when they failed to play the occasion in the first two.

Pakistan was 1.5 years ago now and that was the pinnacle of this side we've not played anywhere near as good consistently since.

The test team is still obviously a success from where it was but you can't just keep repeating that forever.

At some point it has to change. I think this next 18 months will decide if they are a good or great side.

I really hope it's the latter. Hopefully can replicate that first period under Stokes the way we played against NZ at H and Pakistan A.

Yeah there is certainly two ways to look at things, and respect where you coming from like you say in the three series you mention we were competitive and we made mistakes and they could have been different.

Thus meaning our record could be exceptional rather than good.

If as you say we have been a average side punching above our weight with not as good players as a Strauss era.

Surely that all the more credit to McCullum gettting this side to get the results they have and been soo close to beating the sides ranked above us while at the same time accepting your point that mistakes have been made where we could have done even better.

It depends which way you look at The Ashes yes I accept mistakes were made in the first two tests when on top, but there were many many occasions we outplayed the best side in the world that a positive.

And we were certain to win that 4th test but for rain so we would have won that series against a very very good side.

Guess there is two ways to look at it mate.

Has the coach done a great job to get the players we have had perform very competitively against best sides in the world with possibly ‘ average side’ your words he has certainly transformed how our openers have performed?

Or is it extremely frustrating that we have got in such good positions against them very good sides and make mistakes that have cost us games?

 

[MustardAndOnions]

As I posted earlier the buck stops with Key.Mott hadn't the experience and can't command the respect from the players.

Aye probs right but Buttler runs the show

Key done good job overall

They did win the World Cup too remember

We failed to win 3 series against teams ranked above us at the time of playing them. NZ (A) Aus (H) and Ind (A)

It's a massive improvement in how we played under Root. We're an average team that's punched above it's weight let's be honest, as exciting as it's been. But we ain't exactly the Strauss side are we. Still plenty of work to do for me.

All 3 of them series could have finished very different if we'd tweaked our style even a fraction to the game situation.

I guess it depends on what you consider success. I like beating teams better than us not drawing and losing series. I know you can't win every series but not winning any of them when they were opportunities to is a failure. The rain in ashes is a flimsy excuse when they failed to play the occasion in the first two.

Pakistan was 1.5 years ago now and that was the pinnacle of this side we've not played anywhere near as good consistently since.

The test team is still obviously a success from where it was but you can't just keep repeating that forever.

At some point it has to change. I think this next 18 months will decide if they are a good or great side.

I really hope it's the latter. Hopefully can replicate that first period under Stokes the way we played against NZ at H and Pakistan A.

Winning in India is impossible

I think that’s really harsh

The ashes was amazing

 

[Hetty]

They'll end up winning it now

 

[Parkside]

Aye probs right but Buttler runs the show

Key done good job overall

They did win the World Cup too remember


Winning in India is impossible

I think that’s really harsh

The ashes was amazing

FACTS
Morgan's legacy won the World Cup-I remember.
Winning in India is extremely difficult -avoiding a humiliation is not so.
Aussie's still retain the Ashes.
Key has overseen humiliation in the ODI World Cup and 1 good performance in the current tournament.
On that evidence he's doing a horrendous job in white ball cricket.

 

[Turner the Cat]

Lets not forget how poor things were under Joe Root at times. I think only Atherton has a poorer record than Root as captain but those really were the dark days of English cricket. It has been night and day comparing Root and Stokes and not just in terms of results but also performances and excitement.

I dont like Key but I'll give him some credit. He has admitted he has prioritised red ball over white ball and he has supported Stokes' approach even when it hasnt worked.

 

[MustardAndOnions]

FACTS
Morgan's legacy won the World Cup-I remember.
Winning in India is extremely difficult -avoiding a humiliation is not so.
Aussie's still retain the Ashes.
Key has overseen humiliation in the ODI World Cup and 1 good performance in the current tournament.
On that evidence he's doing a horrendous job in white ball cricket.

We weren’t humiliated at all in India? What you on about? I was there

We literally won the World Cup in our last one

Morgan captained in the World Cup before that and was shocking.

What are you on about here like

Lets not forget how poor things were under Joe Root at times. I think only Atherton has a poorer record than Root as captain but those really were the dark days of English cricket. It has been night and day comparing Root and Stokes and not just in terms of results but also performances and excitement.

I dont like Key but I'll give him some credit. He has admitted he has prioritised red ball over white ball and he has supported Stokes' approach even when it hasnt worked.

People are so miserable it does me head in

Just trying to manipulate stuff to suit their agenda

key has done a good job like not much doubt about that

 

[Voice of fair play]

Lets not forget how poor things were under Joe Root at times. I think only Atherton has a poorer record than Root as captain but those really were the dark days of English cricket. It has been night and day comparing Root and Stokes and not just in terms of results but also performances and excitement.

I dont like Key but I'll give him some credit. He has admitted he has prioritised red ball over white ball and he has supported Stokes' approach even when it hasnt worked.

I was really impressed despite going 2-0 in the ashes they held their nerve and continued to let the players flourish and play with confidence.

That the difference between English test cricket and English football.

One allowed to flourish and play with freedom and encouraged, another shit scared to play their normal game

 

[Turner the Cat]

We weren’t humiliated at all in India? What you on about? I was there

The series ended badly but up until the 2nd innings in the 4th test I think most people were pretty optimistic about our chances. We went into that 2nd innings with about a 50 run lead with the series at 2-1 to India but then collapsed.

 

[MustardAndOnions]

The series ended badly but up until the 2nd innings in the 4th test I think most people were pretty optimistic about our chances. We went into that 2nd innings with about a 50 run lead with the series at 2-1 to India but then collapsed.

Yeah we did well enough, spinners so young.

Athers put it well, like a tug of war race and you’re holding on and at the end India win and it collapses

Didn’t tell story of the series I was really proud with how we played

For someone to just say we were humiliated isn’t true

And that’s one of the all time great test series that ashes one, for anyone to moan about that blows me mind. We’d have won without the rain but even so it was just brilliant to watch, every session was captivating.

If you just watch that and think oh Aussies retained ashes, what a failure, I am not sure test cricket is your sport

 

[Voice of fair play]

The India series everyone predicted we would lose 4-0 , 5-0 on here before the series as they knew how difficult it was as prior to that series they knew India had only lost 3 tests in 46 never mind losing a series.

Yet when it did happen as everyone predicted some posters took to slaughtering the team and been shocked we lost.

That said it was a bit of a missed opportunity as India for one reason or another had a number of players missing

Yeah we did well enough, spinners so young.

Athers put it well, like a tug of war race and you’re holding on and at the end India win and it collapses

Didn’t tell story of the series I was really proud with how we played

For someone to just say we were humiliated isn’t true

And that’s one of the all time great test series that ashes one, for anyone to moan about that blows me mind. We’d have won without the rain but even so it was just brilliant to watch, every session was captivating.

If you just watch that and think oh Aussies retained ashes, what a failure, I am not sure test cricket is your sport

Yeah could not agree more we went toe to toe with them with aggressive cricket and could have won every test.

It was brilliant to watch.

Yeah of course there were some occasions where we went too hard and made some mistakes, that cannot be argued.

But it’s churlish imo for people to keep focusing on that rather than the bigger picture of how we performed over that full series more than matching a side with better players imo
The Ashes was brilliant

 

[MustardAndOnions]

The India series everyone predicted we would lose 4-0 , 5-0 on here before the series as they knew how difficult it was as prior to that series they knew India had only lost 3 tests in 46 never mind losing a series.

Yet when it did happen as everyone predicted some posters took to slaughtering the team and been shocked we lost.

That said it was a bit of a missed opportunity as India for one reason or another had a number of players missing

Yeah could not agree more we went toe to toe with them with aggressive cricket and could have won every test.

It was brilliant to watch.

Yeah of course there were some occasions where we went too hard and made some mistakes, that cannot be argued.

But it’s churlish imo for people to keep focusing on that rather than the bigger picture of how we performed over that full series more than matching a side with better players imo
The Ashes was brilliant

Summer to remember for me

Reality is we had almost 2 days lost to rain at Manchester which robbed us of the series

And that Crawley innings is one of the best of all time in the ashes, would have meant even more with a win.

They do need a slight regroup this summer mind and it’s a good set of fixtures to iron few things out

 

[Parkside]

We weren’t humiliated at all in India? What you on about? I was there

We literally won the World Cup in our last one

Morgan captained in the World Cup before that and was shocking.

What are you on about here like

These are the facts that I'm on about.
We lost the test series in India 4-1
A 28 run victory,an innings defeat,a 5 wicket defeat,a 450 run defeat and a 106 run defeat.
In the ICC World Cup we finished 7th in the eliminator table below all the major cricketing nations,nowhere near to claiming a semi-final place.
I thought we were ill-prepared for both tournaments which to my mind is a management responsibility.
Humiliation is obviously a subjective term and whilst you're fully entitled to your own interpretation I'm surprised that you appear shocked by mine.

 

[Voice of fair play]

These are the facts that I'm on about.
We lost the test series in India 4-1
A 28 run victory,an innings defeat,a 5 wicket defeat,a 450 run defeat and a 106 run defeat.
In the ICC World Cup we finished 7th in the eliminator table below all the major cricketing nations,nowhere near to claiming a semi-final place.
I thought we were ill-prepared for both tournaments which to my mind is a management responsibility.
Humiliation is obviously a subjective term and whilst you're fully entitled to your own interpretation I'm surprised that you appear shocked by mine.

I do think the one day World Cup was as bad as any tournament England have ever played considering they went into as second favorites and was a absolute shit show no bones about and all concerned need to take that responsibility.

The test series was lost before we started the difference in quality of the spin bowling department in terms of capability and experience was simply massive, as big as it’s ever been between them two sides on spin bowling alone, we were never going to win, we actually put up more of a fight than expected and were in some games.

However like I said that could have been because India were missing some key players.

In conclusion it’s 100% right to slaughter the team for the one day World Cup performances and it’s was a humiliation, but imo it wasn’t for test series in India.