Reinstate Sunderland Shipbuilding

[Horatio Pugwash]

Fair play to him. Its no place for anyone to go to work. I think you may have not fully understood the irony in my original post here.

I think you are right mate

 

[tynevalleyblackcat]

I've often thought manufacture and repair of offshore turbines would be credible business for the town.

Possibly. Would not employ what the yards did but every little helps.

New tech not old is the way to go.

 

[Baloo]

As stated previously, these are merely public face pages and nothing more - clearly no business plan and other sensitive documents are going to be made viewable to anyone other than those who need to know.

I am not here to convince anyone of anything, merely to point out that this project exists and that for those of you who are interested, you can follow its development via FB or LI.

There seems to be a bit of back and forth going on again between Reinstate Sunderland Shipbuilding (RSS) and SCC.

Is it unreasonable for SCC to ask for a business plan before officially supporting the proposal. I genuinely can’t see why they wouldn’t support it?

https://imgur.com/a/rSTnZO9

Maybe they don’t think that SCC are in the “need to know” category?

 

[Paddy O'Dors]

What are the main companies and locations for this?

Lots of places in Scotland. SSE just awarded a big contract to an overseas consortium much to the chagrin of said companies (based around Fife iirc).

It does seem that these groups have as much anti-council sentiment as they do pro-ship building.

The government have just announced a £17bn investment in the armed forces, including building a load of new frigates. You'd think this group would be making noises about getting some of that work (combat ships are always made in the UK so that lessens any competition). Warships can be made compositely nowadays and assembled at different places around the country before being stuck together so you don't even after bid for a full ship, just subcontract off Cammell Laird or suchlike.

We've also just announced a reclassification of RFA ships from merchant to combat and a new order for some of those.

It makes you wonder if they are a serious group if they don't pick up on stuff like this and use it to their advantage and business case instead of just bashing the council. The £8k would be better spent on PR/Business consultants rather than leaflets which will go straight in most people's bin.

 

[smoker]

Lots of places in Scotland. SSE just awarded a big contract to an overseas consortium much to the chagrin of said companies (based around Fife iirc).


The government have just announced a £17bn investment in the armed forces, including building a load of new frigates. You'd think this group would be making noises about getting some of that work (combat ships are always made in the UK so that lessens any competition). Warships can be made compositely nowadays and assembled at different places around the country before being stuck together so you don't even after bid for a full ship, just subcontract off Cammell Laird or suchlike.

We've also just announced a reclassification of RFA ships from merchant to combat and a new order for some of those.

It makes you wonder if they are a serious group if they don't pick up on stuff like this and use it to their advantage and business case instead of just bashing the council. The £8k would be better spent on PR/Business consultants rather than leaflets which will go straight in most people's bin.

There are already yards fitted out for the building of military ships, in Glasgow, Appledore and Portsmouth. Barrow can be used to build surface ships at a push. I don't think there's going to be enough work in this to justify a new yard.

 

[Paddy O'Dors]

There are already yards fitted out for the building of military ships, in Glasgow, Appledore and Portsmouth. Barrow can be used to build surface ships at a push. I don't think there's going to be enough work in this to justify a new yard.

Portsmouth ceased shipbuilding operations in 2013 mate. Like I said, there should be nowt to stop them subcontracting work. The control towers on the new aircraft carriers were built in Portsmouth and towed to/stuck on in Rosyth. Cammell Laird are in. While welding is a highly skilled job the hull etc isn't the most sophisticated part of a warship (BAe yards will do that stuff).

Cammell Laird to revive bid to build new British warships - Liverpool Business News

Merseyside shipyard Cammell Laird is set to revive plans to help build a new generation of Royal Navy warships as the Government raises the defence budget by £16.5bn. Tony McDonough reports Multi-billion pound plans to build a new generation of Royal Navy frigates will likely lead to major...

lbndaily.co.uk

 

[lurker]

Populism


Find a town full of poor people who’ve voted for the same political party for years.

Tell them exactly what they want to hear, add in a bit of blame for foreigners as well.

 

[Horatio Pugwash]

Populism


Find a town full of poor people who’ve voted for the same political party for years.

Tell them exactly what they want to hear, add in a bit of blame for foreigners as well.

Very good

Fuck all to do with the thread but very good

 

[DaveH]

The council don't want to pay millions of pounds a year to keep the river dredged up to Pallion, for the sake of one small shipyard, and you can hardly blame them.

The venture could always stump up the cost, or pay to move the sheds to a dredged part of the river like the South Docks, if it's so cost effective.

I suppose it is like asking the Highways Agency to build you a motorway or Network rail to run you a train line, for a start up business, and for them to swallow the cost.

When geography is against you, serious work is needed and that costs money. "Our business will work if the tax payers stump up this large amount of cash", does sound unreasonable unless the business looks more than certain to be successful.

I think you are right that it needs to build up small from a place that does not need so much engineering. It is a very ambitions task to open a large ship yard and start from scratch, and hope big orders will come in.

 

[bomber]

Its a real pity that our youth can no longer look forward to going down the mines.

Much as I would love to see industry and high paid jobs on the Wear, Tyne and Tees, we cannot compete with the Asian market in shipbuilding. Renewable energy is the way we need to go, not try to replicate industries that were successful in the past. They died for a reason.

Perfectly put.

 

[smoker]

I suppose it is like asking the Highways Agency to build you a motorway or Network rail to run you a train line, for a start up business, and for them to swallow the cost.

When geography is against you, serious work is needed and that costs money. "Our business will work if the tax payers stump up this large amount of cash", does sound unreasonable unless the business looks more than certain to be successful.

I think you are right that it needs to build up small from a place that does not need so much engineering. It is a very ambitions task to open a large ship yard and start from scratch, and hope big orders will come in.

That's exactly what it is. They're asking Sunderland council to swallow the cost of clearing the river for 2 miles, removing 35 years of silt and destroying the wildlife that has returned, for them to have a punt at running a business which would depend on government subsidies to function, for sentimental reasons. Can you blame the council wanting to see a business plan before committing to such a bold plan?

 

[Paddy O'Dors]

Populism


Find a town full of poor people who’ve voted for the same political party for years.

Tell them exactly what they want to hear, add in a bit of blame for foreigners as well.

Promise them unicorns.

 

[smoker]

Portsmouth ceased shipbuilding operations in 2013 mate. Like I said, there should be nowt to stop them subcontracting work. The control towers on the new aircraft carriers were built in Portsmouth and towed to/stuck on in Rosyth. Cammell Laird are in. While welding is a highly skilled job the hull etc isn't the most sophisticated part of a warship (BAe yards will do that stuff).

Cammell Laird to revive bid to build new British warships - Liverpool Business News

Merseyside shipyard Cammell Laird is set to revive plans to help build a new generation of Royal Navy warships as the Government raises the defence budget by £16.5bn. Tony McDonough reports Multi-billion pound plans to build a new generation of Royal Navy frigates will likely lead to major...

lbndaily.co.uk

This daft venture is about building ships not subcontracting to BAE for ship parts, which would be more sensible.

Is there anyone left, at working age, in Sunderland with shipbuilding skills? My old man was one of the last generation of shipbuilders and he's 75.

 

[DaveH]

That's exactly what it is. They're asking Sunderland council to swallow the cost of clearing the river for 2 miles, removing 35 years of silt and destroying the wildlife that has returned, for them to have a punt at running a business which would depend on government subsidies to function, for sentimental reasons. Can you blame the council wanting to see a business plan before committing to such a bold plan?

It is a shame. Ships are great things and although a lot of the ship building was drying up when I was a kid, I'm proud when I learn about our history of what we built. I remember every week we would go through to my grandparents in Ryhope and pass near the ship yards. I used to love looking in and seeing the ships grow week by week, as we drove past.

A number of times I have searched to see if there is a time lapse of a ship being built, especially a Sunderland one, but never found one that starts right at the beginning. I try to imagine what it was like, laying down that first bit of steel in a dry dock to lay out the hull. I suppose it is the ship equivalent of digging the foundations. I don't know what is involved, but I picture some steel ribs or girders all set out exactly and eventually the ship forms around them, until after months this impressive structure is floated, engines start and off it goes. For those workers there from the beginning to the end, it must have been an amazing sense of achievement, to see it on it's way, and then it starts again, new project next week. Most of the ships seemed to be fairly unique as well, so it is not like another 100 Quashi off the production line, all identical. Like steam trains, it feels like there is something special connected to them.

You are right, that returning to Sunderland is an emotional thing. It is a dream and all successful businesses start with a dream, but then so do unsuccessful ones. It would be good if they could achieve it but I don't see how they can from scratch, and justify the council stump up the cash. There is the wildlife aspect too as you say. To me it sounds like the better bet is to partner up with a company from somewhere like the Glasgow yards. Get their investment and a few smaller contracts they don't have the capacity for. Obviously it will eat at the profit margins and not be independent, but it will get things started.

I think any bold and ambitions business plan needs someone who can really sell it, get some big business on board. Someone who can walk into the council offices and say, "here is our business plan, here are draft commitments to orders, here is the amount of employment in the area we will generate, the only thing missing is your bit dredging the river". If this has been going for 5 years, got nowhere and they have resorted to leaflet dropping to people in the Sunderland area, then it sounds like they haven't got that. Are teachers, taxi drivers, shop workers etc, really going to help them?

 

[Osklen]

It is a shame. Ships are great things and although a lot of the ship building was drying up when I was a kid, I'm proud when I learn about our history of what we built. I remember every week we would go through to my grandparents in Ryhope and pass near the ship yards. I used to love looking in and seeing the ships grow week by week, as we drove past.

A number of times I have searched to see if there is a time lapse of a ship being built, especially a Sunderland one, but never found one that starts right at the beginning. I try to imagine what it was like, laying down that first bit of steel in a dry dock to lay out the hull. I suppose it is the ship equivalent of digging the foundations. I don't know what is involved, but I picture some steel ribs or girders all set out exactly and eventually the ship forms around them, until after months this impressive structure is floated, engines start and off it goes. For those workers there from the beginning to the end, it must have been an amazing sense of achievement, to see it on it's way, and then it starts again, new project next week. Most of the ships seemed to be fairly unique as well, so it is not like another 100 Quashi off the production line, all identical. Like steam trains, it feels like there is something special connected to them.

You are right, that returning to Sunderland is an emotional thing. It is a dream and all successful businesses start with a dream, but then so do unsuccessful ones. It would be good if they could achieve it but I don't see how they can from scratch, and justify the council stump up the cash. There is the wildlife aspect too as you say. To me it sounds like the better bet is to partner up with a company from somewhere like the Glasgow yards. Get their investment and a few smaller contracts they don't have the capacity for. Obviously it will eat at the profit margins and not be independent, but it will get things started.

I think any bold and ambitions business plan needs someone who can really sell it, get some big business on board. Someone who can walk into the council offices and say, "here is our business plan, here are draft commitments to orders, here is the amount of employment in the area we will generate, the only thing missing is your bit dredging the river". If this has been going for 5 years, got nowhere and they have resorted to leaflet dropping to people in the Sunderland area, then it sounds like they haven't got that. Are teachers, taxi drivers, shop workers etc, really going to help them?

I agree entirely. I would have thought if this is viable they would have partnered with a ship building organisation first and foremost, or at the very least their organisation (assuming it is actually a business and not just a lobby group) has people on its board who have managed such businesses in the past and knows the sector (they may have this already I just don’t know). Only then will they have the credence to progress this.

There is then the covenant strength of any such business. If it is a new start then there is no recourse and a massive risk to anyone providing grant or funding as no doubt any proposal will be capital heavy unlike an IT startup for instance.

I’d love to see the ships being built but equally that part of the city is really nice with wildlife returning to the area, and quite an asset for somewhere so close to the city centre especially if the city wishes to take itself seriously from a sustainability perspective.

 

[Paddy O'Dors]

This daft venture is about building ships not subcontracting to BAE for ship parts, which would be more sensible.

Is there anyone left, at working age, in Sunderland with shipbuilding skills? My old man was one of the last generation of shipbuilders and he's 75.

I think a lot of shipbuilders tend to be a mobile lot and follow the work. Lots of the workers in the shipyard in the naval base were from elsewhere in the UK.

It is a shame. Ships are great things and although a lot of the ship building was drying up when I was a kid, I'm proud when I learn about our history of what we built. I remember every week we would go through to my grandparents in Ryhope and pass near the ship yards. I used to love looking in and seeing the ships grow week by week, as we drove past.

A number of times I have searched to see if there is a time lapse of a ship being built, especially a Sunderland one, but never found one that starts right at the beginning. I try to imagine what it was like, laying down that first bit of steel in a dry dock to lay out the hull. I suppose it is the ship equivalent of digging the foundations. I don't know what is involved, but I picture some steel ribs or girders all set out exactly and eventually the ship forms around them, until after months this impressive structure is floated, engines start and off it goes. For those workers there from the beginning to the end, it must have been an amazing sense of achievement, to see it on it's way, and then it starts again, new project next week. Most of the ships seemed to be fairly unique as well, so it is not like another 100 Quashi off the production line, all identical. Like steam trains, it feels like there is something special connected to them.

You are right, that returning to Sunderland is an emotional thing. It is a dream and all successful businesses start with a dream, but then so do unsuccessful ones. It would be good if they could achieve it but I don't see how they can from scratch, and justify the council stump up the cash. There is the wildlife aspect too as you say. To me it sounds like the better bet is to partner up with a company from somewhere like the Glasgow yards. Get their investment and a few smaller contracts they don't have the capacity for. Obviously it will eat at the profit margins and not be independent, but it will get things started.

I think any bold and ambitions business plan needs someone who can really sell it, get some big business on board. Someone who can walk into the council offices and say, "here is our business plan, here are draft commitments to orders, here is the amount of employment in the area we will generate, the only thing missing is your bit dredging the river". If this has been going for 5 years, got nowhere and they have resorted to leaflet dropping to people in the Sunderland area, then it sounds like they haven't got that. Are teachers, taxi drivers, shop workers etc, really going to help them?

Leaflet drops in the age of social media to get your message across is a nonsense (and a waste of money).

 

[Bob Fleming]

That's exactly what it is. They're asking Sunderland council to swallow the cost of clearing the river for 2 miles, removing 35 years of silt and destroying the wildlife that has returned, for them to have a punt at running a business which would depend on government subsidies to function, for sentimental reasons. Can you blame the council wanting to see a business plan before committing to such a bold plan?

Exactly. Anyone with a modicum of intelligence would be able to see that. However this lot will be able to bang the anti-council drum, saying they are blocking a return to our glorious past, and mouth breathers will lap it up.

Leaflet drops in the age of social media to get your message across is a nonsense (and a waste of money).

And this is what makes me think it stinks of the SFT lot. That's exactly what they do.

 

[smoker]

I think a lot of shipbuilders tend to be a mobile lot and follow the work. Lots of the workers in the shipyard in the naval base were from elsewhere in the UK.

IKR, my old man worked all round the country when Sunderland yards shut.

This wouldn't actually create any new jobs for Sunderland people though.

 

[king of the road]

Exactly. Anyone with a modicum of intelligence would be able to see that. However this lot will be able to bang the anti-council drum, saying they are blocking a return to our glorious past, and mouth breathers will lap it up.

And this is what makes me think it stinks of the SFT lot. That's exactly what they do.

SfT is a typical far right front organisation. Posts only negative propaganda with some underlying vague populist message. The Brexit muppets on its FB page lap it up as gospel. Thoroughly depressing.

 

[lurker]

Very good

Fuck all to do with the thread but very good

Keep voting for Christmas, turkey. The nice man said it will all work out ok.