AC Mack
Striker
I don't know how else to put it, so I'll just have to give an example.
If a player touches the ball first but on his follow through goes straight through his opponent's shin with his studs high, is that a foul?
I don't know how else to put it, so I'll just have to give an example.
If a player touches the ball first but on his follow through goes straight through his opponent's shin with his studs high, is that a foul?
A Salford player was given a straight red card and then Jay Spearing was given a straight red card in our game yesterday in the 1st half but in the 2nd half a Salford player did a much worse foul than both and got a yellow. Either the rules were changed at half time or the referees don't know what they are doing. I choose the 2nd option.
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Deleted member 43869
Guest
Or from the referees angle he didn't get a decent view of it or the referee didn't have the opportunity to replay the incident and the incident in the first half and sit down and study both of them carefully or Spearing had already been collecting fouls all half or maybe the ref just had a different view to you. Honestly people need to give the refs a break. It's a bloody impossible task!
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Dilligaf60
Guest
Indeed mate. Too many Fanny’s about now. Too good an opportunity to miss.
Or the referee asked the linesmen in both incidents, who had a similar view to him but from another angle. Both red cards are on video. Spearing hadnt even been spoken to by the referee up until his red card. Josh Hawkes got booked for something that was as bad as either red card and a Salford player got booked for something much worse. Consistency isnt an impossible task.
parsonjohn1985
Winger
Well, going over the top of the ball isn't 'winning the ball'. So it depends what you mean really. Just touching the balllike it flicks off the bottom of your foot but you've gone over the top then that's a foul.
If you win the ball then afterwards hit your opponent, not a foul.
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Deleted member 43869
Guest
The problem is that every single incident is a matter of interpretation. You will never get two challenges that are exactly the same. It's impossible. You might be right in that the Salford players tackle was just as bad but the ref deemed otherwise in the limited opportunity he has of viewing it. I think when you start trying to establish consistency by boxing off certain tackles into 'categories' to achieve consistency you start getting daft decisions.
Daft decisions are normal. There has to be consistency of how certain incidents are viewed. They are either red cards or they are not. VAR only exists because the television version of football requires consistency.
AC Mack
Striker
Who said anything about going over the top of the ball? You can win the ball and then go straight through an opponent's shin without doing that.
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Deleted member 43869
Guest
Every single challenge is different. Different angles, speeds, degree of force, points of contact, prior conduct, necessity, there's millions of variables. You can't possibly have consistency unless you make rules completely simplistic. Handball is the best example. Referees almost reduced it to strict liability last year in the hope of achieving 'consistency' and it became ridiculous.
Imagine you are commissioned to write the legislative wording for what constitutes a red card challenge. Have a go and you'll still be left with massive grey areas that every single person would judge differently. It's not binary. We will never have a world where everyone will 'know' what is a red or not.
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parsonjohn1985
Winger
Then, as I said, not a foul
How about this one. If a player goes down screaming and then immediately gets up and runs to the referee demanding a red card then he is clearly cheating. If you are hurt then you do not respond by jumping to your feet and moving quickly. He should be carded.
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Deleted member 43869
Guest
I'd agree with that although you haven't really answered the question.
Vicham
Midfield
I really don't get this argument. I recall lots of people claiming Mané shouldn't have been given a card when he struck Ederson at the chin with a flying kick a few years back, as he was challenging for the ball and could only win it that way.
The end doesn't necessarily justify the means.
I am not a politician so feel no need.
Vicham
Midfield
The booking for Manchester City's Lavia to ight against Wycombe is a perfect example of why consistency is impossible. A yellow card for a missed dribble, where he kind of steps on the ball, making him go over the ball and strike an opponent with his studs.
Not the least malicious, no excessive force.
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Deleted member 43869
Guest
Exactly. I still can't get my head round how people think we will ever have a set of rules that adequately manage to have all fans in agreement on decisions. You can apply the letter of the law to an incident and still find scenarios where the incident just doesn't fit.
On the subject of red cards Jay Spearing has had his rescinded from saturday and to add a cherry on the icing of the cake Salford City have been charged with failing to control their players during the incident. Sort that one out Classless of 92 because it also happened against Swindon Town. Filthy little fake cheating club.
Fishpie
Midfield
Vicham
Midfield
Not related to this incident, but I think Dermot Gallagher is spot on with this phrase on this week's Ref Watch on Sky Sports (Kane's penalty appeal against Gunners)
That's the thing, it's not an exact science. You have to allow a grey area [of subjectivity] and that fell in it."
