Rafa. He's still not happy

[clockstandpaddock]

I have no problem with any supporter defending holding their manager on a pedestal, but given the info on google Mike Ashley effectively stopped the club going bust by giving them £millions to pay off huge debts. They owe him the money instead interest free and the Sports Direct advertising is in lieu of interest payments on that loan.

Obviously common sense doesnt come into it

You could say the same about us and Short tbh.

 

[Deleted member 41188]

I've criticised Benitez on here and given Ashley credit on here, man. But aye, he can do no wrong and Ashley can do no right.

Standard sign-off from someone losing the discussion as well. 'OMG YOU LIVE ON HERE'

Where have I once said any of the above in relation to you specifically. Have a look at my posts and they'll say some of your fans.

You take the tone of saying my post is full of bullshit, I'll respond with the type of post it deserves. Whats the point in engaging in any kind of debate otherwise?

 

[Sima]

Where have I once said any of the above in relation to you specifically. Have a look at my posts and they'll say some of your fans.

You take the tone of saying my post is full of bullshit, I'll respond with the type of post it deserves. Whats the point in engaging in any kind of debate otherwise?

So which fans do think Benitez can do no wrong and Ashley can do no right? Do you have evidence to support it or is it purely anecdotal?

 

[pavarotti1980]

You could say the same about us and Short tbh.

No we know a special level of stupidity in running the club.

 

[Deleted member 41188]

So which fans do think Benitez can do no wrong and Ashley can do no right? Do you have evidence to support it or is it purely anecdotal?

I dont think it would take long to find it on social media to be honest. Twitter and Facebook, although I know are full of bells, portray this image regularly.

Perhaps I'm just mates with those who follow those shite accounts and there are many pro Ashley statuses/tweets out there.

 

[Sima]

I dont think it would take long to find it on social media to be honest. Twitter and Facebook, although I know are full of bells, portray this image regularly.

Perhaps I'm just mates with those who follow those shite accounts and there are many pro Ashley statuses/tweets out there.

Go on then.

For balance, here's me criticising Benitez

#26

Here's me giving Ashley credit

#254

 

[Deleted member 41188]

Go on then.

For balance, here's me criticising Benitez

#26

Here's me giving Ashley credit

#254

Again, I have not once levied any claims at yourself, rather a section of your fans. Surely even you would agree to that.

 

[Sima]

Again, I have not once levied any claims at yourself, rather a section of your fans. Surely even you would agree to that.

I've never come across anyone who won't give Ashley any credit and doesn't give Benitez any criticism. Then again, I'm not trying to claim this is widespread despite two of the most prominent Newcastle fans on here telling you different...

Shouldn't be too hard for you to prove me otherwise though, unless it is purely anecdotal after all and you're using it to build a straw man to push a narrative.

 

[The Fish]

Again, I have not once levied any claims at yourself, rather a section of your fans. Surely even you would agree to that.

Yet you imply that this section of fans is somehow representative of the whole, rather than just a section?

Overwhelming majority of Newcastle fans will 'cede that Ashley has made us financially more secure than we were under Shepherd, and will criticise Benitez when criticism is deserved.

I suppose while the above is patently true, that's not as fun as claiming Newcastle fans think Ashley can do no right and Benitez can do no wrong.

 

[Deleted member 41188]

I've never come across anyone who won't give Ashley any credit and doesn't give Benitez any criticism. Then again, I'm not trying to claim this is widespread despite two of the most prominent Newcastle fans on here telling you different...

Shouldn't be too hard for you to prove me otherwise though, unless it is purely anecdotal after all and you're using it to build a straw man to push a narrative.

So I have to find examples of tweets and or social media posts where they say they love Benitez and hate Ashley. Both in the same?

How about two separate posts from the same person? Can it be individuals? Or does it need to be more mainstream?

 

[Sima]

So I have to find examples of tweets and or social media posts where they say they love Benitez and hate Ashley. Both in the same?

How about two separate posts from the same person? Can it be individuals? Or does it need to be more mainstream?

Two posts from the same person will suffice. You know, like I have given you to the contrary and like you have suggested.

You can't really say 'Benitez can do no wrong and Ashley no right in the eyes of some fans' and then give an opinion from two different people tbf.

 

[Binxy]

Yet you imply that this section of fans is somehow representative of the whole, rather than just a section?

Overwhelming majority of Newcastle fans will 'cede that Ashley has made us financially more secure than we were under Shepherd, and will criticise Benitez when criticism is deserved.

I suppose while the above is patently true, that's not as fun as claiming Newcastle fans think Ashley can do no right and Benitez can do no wrong.

Like when he relegated you.

 

[Deleted member 41188]

Yet you imply that this section of fans is somehow representative of the whole, rather than just a section?

Overwhelming majority of Newcastle fans will 'cede that Ashley has made us financially more secure than we were under Shepherd, and will criticise Benitez when criticism is deserved.

I suppose while the above is patently true, that's not as fun as claiming Newcastle fans think Ashley can do no right and Benitez can do no wrong.

No I havent. Read back. I've said certain fans. I know there are plenty of your fans who are just like our normal fans. There's idiots on both sides.

This all started with a comment about that banner. I thought it was pretty pathetic for grown men to be grovelling to a bloke who gets paid a load of money and who (IMHO) does not have an affinity to your club.

In my opinion when you are doing well, there is little mention of Ashley, i.e. he allowed RB to buy whoever he wanted last season. But when things arent going so well, its his fault, i.e. he didnt allow Rafa to spend money in this summer/ last Januarys transfer window.

Two posts from the same person will suffice. You know, like I have given you to the contrary and like you have suggested.

You can't really say 'Benitez can do no wrong and Ashley no right in the eyes of some fans' and then give an opinion from two different people tbf.

Pretty strong opinions in this piece?

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[The Fish]

Like when he relegated you.

Did he? Christ, you'd think that kind of thing would be mentioned more on here?

ffs

No I havent. Read back. I've said certain fans. I know there are plenty of your fans who are just like our normal fans. There's idiots on both sides.

This all started with a comment about that banner. I thought it was pretty pathetic for grown men to be grovelling to a bloke who gets paid a load of money and who (IMHO) does not have an affinity to your club.

In my opinion when you are doing well, there is little mention of Ashley, i.e. he allowed RB to buy whoever he wanted last season. But when things arent going so well, its his fault, i.e. he didnt allow Rafa to spend money in this summer/ last Januarys transfer window.

I don't accept your characterisation of that banner as "grovelling" like. It's just showing support. Same as sending Advocaat's wide flowers.

When we do "well" it despite Ashley, rather than because of him though. Surely you see that? And Benitez getting one window's worth of full support isn't good enough. He should have been able to strengthen in January so that we avoid the mental inflation this latest window showed, he should have been able to strengthen more than he has in this most recent window so that we stand the best possible chance of staying up.

Especially as we're financially hale and healthy.

If you were to put the things Ashley has done right vs what he's done wrong in columns, even if you weight some things as more important as others, he's still very much in the red.

 

[Deleted member 41188]

I don't accept your characterisation of that banner as "grovelling" like. It's just showing support. Same as sending Advocaat's wide flowers.

When we do "well" it despite Ashley, rather than because of him though. Surely you see that? And Benitez getting one window's worth of full support isn't good enough. He should have been able to strengthen in January so that we avoid the mental inflation this latest window showed, he should have been able to strengthen more than he has in this most recent window so that we stand the best possible chance of staying up.

Especially as we're financially hale and healthy.

If you were to put the things Ashley has done right vs what he's done wrong in columns, even if you weight some things as more important as others, he's still very much in the red.

I didnt appreciate the wording was from Valencia, but its pretty chringeworthy. I can understand the big flags with his face on, but it just seems a bit extreme. Just my opinion like.

In terms of Ashley, I'd say saving your club has been a pretty big entry in the black column. The finances at your club, as I'm sure you'll be aware, were horrific when he came in. His daft fault for doing no due diligence like.

People always go on about net spend, but it was Ashleys signings in Wijnaldum and Sissoko who generated the money for Benitez to have another splurge. Even the money from Townsend was reinvested.

 

[Binxy]

I didnt appreciate the wording was from Valencia, but its pretty chringeworthy. I can understand the big flags with his face on, but it just seems a bit extreme. Just my opinion like.

In terms of Ashley, I'd say saving your club has been a pretty big entry in the black column. The finances at your club, as I'm sure you'll be aware, were horrific when he came in. His daft fault for doing no due diligence like.

People always go on about net spend, but it was Ashleys signings in Wijnaldum and Sissoko who generated the money for Benitez to have another splurge. Even the money from Townsend was reinvested.

Keep up man that was all down to Benitez.

 

[Reiver]

Yet you imply that this section of fans is somehow representative of the whole, rather than just a section? Overwhelming majority of Newcastle fans will 'cede that Ashley has made us financially more secure than we were under Shepherd, and will criticise Benitez when criticism is deserved.

I suppose while the above is patently true, that's not as fun as claiming Newcastle fans think Ashley can do no right and Benitez can do no wrong.

You have no more evidence for that claim than Frankel does for his.

Claiming it's 'patently true' emphasises how you believe you speak for the Newcastle support on this board.

 

[What A Waster]

I didnt appreciate the wording was from Valencia, but its pretty chringeworthy. I can understand the big flags with his face on, but it just seems a bit extreme. Just my opinion like.

In terms of Ashley, I'd say saving your club has been a pretty big entry in the black column. The finances at your club, as I'm sure you'll be aware, were horrific when he came in. His daft fault for doing no due diligence like.

People always go on about net spend, but it was Ashleys signings in Wijnaldum and Sissoko who generated the money for Benitez to have another splurge. Even the money from Townsend was reinvested.

Our debt to the banks was £75m when Ashley took over, and we had bigger turnovers than Everton, Spurs and Man City.
Now our debt to Ashley is £130m. The club makes no money from advertising space in the ground. Every revenue stream has diminished under Ashley apart from income from television rights, something which he has no influence over.
It's not like we were on the brink of bankruptcy with administration looming when he took over. There were clubs in bigger debt than Newcastle. Clubs who were making bigger losses.
It's a nice story that he's helped Newcastle avoid "doing a Leeds" but it's simply not true. Within 2 years of him buying the club we'd been through 5 managers and been relegated. The only reason it runs at a profit is because it's been used as a player trading post and the austerity measures imposed on transfer spending. Buy low sell high has been the outlook and that's fine if you're also building something, but financial solvency isn't the sole aim in football.

 

[Fat Lady Racing]

Like when he relegated you.

Allow me to save you the effort...

Six in a row...

 

[The Fish]

I didnt appreciate the wording was from Valencia, but its pretty chringeworthy. I can understand the big flags with his face on, but it just seems a bit extreme. Just my opinion like.

In terms of Ashley, I'd say saving your club has been a pretty big entry in the black column. The finances at your club, as I'm sure you'll be aware, were horrific when he came in. His daft fault for doing no due diligence like.

People always go on about net spend, but it was Ashleys signings in Wijnaldum and Sissoko who generated the money for Benitez to have another splurge. Even the money from Townsend was reinvested.

It was his fault for failing to do due diligence. But he was in such a rush to buy us, with a view to flip u

Put it this way, with the profit we've made on transfers like Carroll, Cabaye, Sissoko etc. we should have been in a position to build a strong Premier League squad. We finished 5th one season and despite the obvious pressure that would put on an already thin squad, we signed Vurnon Anita. I've no problem with finding value in other markets if that value is used to improve the side, rather than to offset stagnation in commercial revenue.

The fact is, Ashley gambled on what we had being enough to keep us up, that the players Graham Carr found would play a few years then move on for huge profits and that the high attendances would keep a steady flow of money into the club. He showed no ambition, he showed and continues to show contempt to the fans, if he had his way Newcastle United would get to 40pts every season and down tools.

As long as Sports Direct gets its gaudy signage on tv every other week he's happy.

I've often said that he's so close to being a very good owner, but he's made so many baffling decisions, so many wilfully controversial choices and has so frequently put the ambitions of his company ahead of the ambitions of the football club, he'll always be considered a bad owner.

You have no more evidence for that claim than Frankel does for his.

Claiming it's 'patently true' emphasises how you believe you speak for the Newcastle support on this board.

I'd argue that I know more Newcastle fans than he does, that I'm in contact with more Newcastle fans than he does, and so on. So I do have more evidence for my claim than he does for his. Given that I'm confident I've a better idea of what Newcastle fans think than he does. Just as he'd have a better finger on the Sunderland pulse than I.