Rafa. He's still not happy

[Howard the Duck]

I think Benitez comments are reflecting his frustration about the market. I also think they're an effort to lower expectations, our crowd has a reputation for getting carried away

There were 6 points between 8th and 17th, nearly half the league were involved in a relegation battle at some point of their season.

Also, I think he likes to instill a "them against us" mentality in the dressing room. He did it last season with his comments about the officials, and meeting every win with a call for calm and a "one game at a time" approach. I also doubt what he says in public necessarily reflects what he says in private.

All that said I'm a bigger fan of "These are shite, lets do them" from the manager.

But with some of the things I've read from him it seems to me he's more likely to create a ''them against him'' mentality if he's not careful. He has had accusations of being aloof and poor in man management in the past hasn't he?
He obviously has other strengths that compensate for any shortcomings in that respect, if there are any, but there surely has to be a point where any dressing room dissatisfaction will start to have an effect regardless of what else you're doing right?

It's difficult to reassure players in private when you've publicly implied they're not good enough.

 

[Reiver]

Tell you what, how about you let me be the one who decides what I meant? I mean given I thought it, I typed it and then I clarified it, I'd say I was better suited to knowing my meaning than a Sunderland fan who doesn't know me from Adam.

You're the worst person on this board for telling people what they're suggesting, what they meant to say or what their agenda is.

You do it constantly .... If you can't take it don't dish it out.

 

[Bear]

Oof shots fired from Mike Ashley

Mike Ashley admits it's impossible to give Rafa Benitez enough money to compete w/the biggest clubs. Exclusive interview on @SkySportsNews.
Mike Ashley underlines the fact that Lee Charnley answers to Rafa Benitez, and the Spaniard has the final say on all transfers, in and out.

You must be logged on to see external links

I love Fat Mike me

 

[The Fish]

Midds didn't post on here from October until promotion just like 90% of your fuckwit fans on here

Didn't he?

Fair dos I thought he did.

You're the worst person on this board for telling people what they're suggesting, what they meant to say or what their agenda is.

You do it constantly .... If you can't take it don't dish it out.

Can you give me an example where I've derailed a conversation by wilfully misrepresenting what the other person has said?

 

[GiantHogweed]

I love Fat Mike me

He loves poking a stick at them lot and their delusions of "club massivesness."

It's brilliant.

 

[Binxy]

Oof shots fired from Mike Ashley

Mike Ashley admits it's impossible to give Rafa Benitez enough money to compete w/the biggest clubs. Exclusive interview on @SkySportsNews.
Mike Ashley underlines the fact that Lee Charnley answers to Rafa Benitez, and the Spaniard has the final say on all transfers, in and out.

You must be logged on to see external links

The unwashed wont like this. They see themselves as one of the big clubs.

 

[o0davy0o]

The unwashed wont like this. They see themselves as one of the big clubs.

No we dont

 

[cluffy]

No we dont

Another Muppet to ignore!

 

[The Fish]

But with some of the things I've read from him it seems to me he's more likely to create a ''them against him'' mentality if he's not careful. He has had accusations of being aloof and poor in man management in the past hasn't he?
He obviously has other strengths that compensate for any shortcomings in that respect, if there are any, but there surely has to be a point where any dressing room dissatisfaction will start to have an effect regardless of what else you're doing right?

It's difficult to reassure players in private when you've publicly implied they're not good enough.

Aye there is something in that. Especially when you're at the wrong end of the table. Weren't there reports that Gerrard was desperate for Benitez' approval, despite public criticism? Flip side is the criticism Dudek levelled at him, and his failure to wrangle the assorted egos in the Real MAdrid dressing room. He was criticised heavily as cold and aloof, but that's not what the fans have seen on Tyneside. It might be the case for the players, but if cold & aloof delivers a 2nd tier title and safety in the first year back, I'm ok with that. I'd worry it isn't sustainable though.

I think if we start well and Benitez is calling for focus and one game at a time, it's ok. But if we're wallowing at the bottom of the table and struggling with confidence and form, yet he's still trying to lower expectations and bemoaning the quality of his players, we'll be in trouble.

I defer to the bloke that's won a fuck ton of trophies though. I know it's mocked as blind faith/messianic worship on here, but there genuinely is a sense of "In Rafa we trust". He's a much, much better manager than any we've had since Robson and we know it. So when he named 22yr old Lascelles as captain last year we raised an eyebrow, but accepted it. When he signed a 33yr old Daryl Murphy we tried to work out his reasons. When he kept lowering expectations we wanted him to get carried away. He's fucked up mind; Sels, Lazaar, Blackburn etc. He's just got more currency than, say, McClaren, Carver or Pardew had and that's in part because of his very impressive CV, a warm commitment to the club and city, and an obvious improvement on the pitch.

 

[Doubledoink]

50pts? 46 points was good enough for 8th and 40pts was only good enough for 17th. If Benitez gets this squad to 50pts he would deserve the manager of the year award. We're a Championship squad with a couple of lower Premier League players dotted here and there. We're still playing Dummett at left back ffs

If I was talking to football fans about football I'd expect a certain degree of "banter", but once the initial back and forth subsided I'd expect to have a decent conversation about football with a mature amount of objectivity. I totally understand the enmity, but people are dismissing an excellent football manager's entire career simply because of the team he currently manages. People are stating they'd rather have Simon Grayson, than one of the most trophied managers in the game today. That's not banter, that's bizarre.

It's like when we had Cabaye and Tiote at their peak, and this place was full of people saying "Nah, Catts fer me like". :lol

Again you can't, in all seriousness, expect everyone on here to 'have a decent conversation about football with a mature amount of objectivity'. Does such a place even exist?? Some people you WILL get that with but the majority will give you short shrift BECAUSE your a MAG on an SAFC forum.

Your a MAG. That in itself will have many on here puzzled and hostile. If you want to get your point across then do so. Just don't complain when people offer different views to yours! Whether they are right or wrong you need to realise that you have come on to THEIR forum to say that THEY are biased! For some totally bizarre reason you seem to genuinely expect some other kind of reaction

Are you on other clubs forums as well as this one?

Beggars belief that a grown man would spend his life on a Sunderland message board rabbiting on about the mags

He's f***ing relentless haha

 

[Tokyo Optician]

Oof shots fired from Mike Ashley

Mike Ashley admits it's impossible to give Rafa Benitez enough money to compete w/the biggest clubs. Exclusive interview on @SkySportsNews.
Mike Ashley underlines the fact that Lee Charnley answers to Rafa Benitez, and the Spaniard has the final say on all transfers, in and out.

You must be logged on to see external links

Reading that twitter link, the mags are saying they don't get Sky TV money until the end of the season. Does that mean we've just got £100 million for finishing bottom, and then start getting the £40 million parachute money at the end of this season?

 

[The Fish]

Again you can't, in all seriousness, expect everyone on here to 'have a decent conversation about football with a mature amount of objectivity'. Does such a place even exist?? Some people you WILL get that with but the majority will give you short shrift BECAUSE your a MAG on an SAFC forum.

Your a MAG. That in itself will have many on here puzzled and hostile. If you want to get your point across then do so. Just don't complain when people offer different views to yours! Whether they are right or wrong you need to realise that you have come on to THEIR forum to say that THEY are biased! For some totally bizarre reason you seem to genuinely expect some other kind of reaction

Are you on other clubs forums as well as this one?

I'm not complaining that people offer a different opinion to mine. I think it's weird when people either misrepresent my opinion to build a straw man, or proffer an extreme opinion on something just to win internet points. e.g. Rafa Benitez is clearly, clearly, a very good manager. Quite why it would be argued that a man with more major trophies than most, isn't a good manager, is beyond me.

I sometimes pop into other clubs' boards and occasionally find a similar situation. I say 2+2=4 and someone on there claims I said 2+2=a bushel of apples. It's bonkers.

I post more on here because there are more threads about Newcastle, Stoke aren't as bothered. Unsurprisingly.

Oof shots fired from Mike Ashley

Mike Ashley admits it's impossible to give Rafa Benitez enough money to compete w/the biggest clubs. Exclusive interview on @SkySportsNews.
Mike Ashley underlines the fact that Lee Charnley answers to Rafa Benitez, and the Spaniard has the final say on all transfers, in and out.

You must be logged on to see external links

We don't need to compete with the biggest clubs. We can't. That's obvious. Even if we had the money to spend on fees, we'd have to break the bank on wages to convince them to join us.

We can compete financially with Watford though, and Bournemouth, and Crystal Palace, or West Ham. But Ashley prefers to gamble that what we've got will be sufficient for his aims; Premier League survival in perpetuity.

 

[Red]

Oof shots fired from Mike Ashley

Mike Ashley admits it's impossible to give Rafa Benitez enough money to compete w/the biggest clubs. Exclusive interview on @SkySportsNews.
Mike Ashley underlines the fact that Lee Charnley answers to Rafa Benitez, and the Spaniard has the final say on all transfers, in and out.

You must be logged on to see external links

Newcastle fans dreams.....

Logon or register to see this image

I'm not complaining that people offer a different opinion to mine. I think it's weird when people either misrepresent my opinion to build a straw man, or proffer an extreme opinion on something just to win internet points. e.g. Rafa Benitez is clearly, clearly, a very good manager. Quite why it would be argued that a man with more major trophies than most, isn't a good manager, is beyond me.

I sometimes pop into other clubs' boards and occasionally find a similar situation. I say 2+2=4 and someone on there claims I said 2+2=a bushel of apples. It's bonkers.

I post more on here because there are more threads about Newcastle, Stoke aren't as bothered. Unsurprisingly.



We don't need to compete with the biggest clubs. We can't. That's obvious. Even if we had the money to spend on fees, we'd have to break the bank on wages to convince them to join us.

We can compete financially with Watford though, and Bournemouth, and Crystal Palace, or West Ham. But Ashley prefers to gamble that what we've got will be sufficient for his aims; Premier League survival in perpetuity.

So far this close season, you haven't been able to. The draw of the Capital far outweighs the North East now, your days of being able to attract decent players by paying over the odds are gone.

 

[prica's crown]

Aye there is something in that. Especially when you're at the wrong end of the table. Weren't there reports that Gerrard was desperate for Benitez' approval, despite public criticism? Flip side is the criticism Dudek levelled at him, and his failure to wrangle the assorted egos in the Real MAdrid dressing room. He was criticised heavily as cold and aloof, but that's not what the fans have seen on Tyneside. It might be the case for the players, but if cold & aloof delivers a 2nd tier title and safety in the first year back, I'm ok with that. I'd worry it isn't sustainable though.

I think if we start well and Benitez is calling for focus and one game at a time, it's ok. But if we're wallowing at the bottom of the table and struggling with confidence and form, yet he's still trying to lower expectations and bemoaning the quality of his players, we'll be in trouble.

I defer to the bloke that's won a fuck ton of trophies though. I know it's mocked as blind faith/messianic worship on here, but there genuinely is a sense of "In Rafa we trust". He's a much, much better manager than any we've had since Robson and we know it. So when he named 22yr old Lascelles as captain last year we raised an eyebrow, but accepted it. When he signed a 33yr old Daryl Murphy we tried to work out his reasons. When he kept lowering expectations we wanted him to get carried away. He's fucked up mind; Sels, Lazaar, Blackburn etc. He's just got more currency than, say, McClaren, Carver or Pardew had and that's in part because of his very impressive CV, a warm commitment to the club and city, and an obvious improvement on the pitch.

We had that sense of forgiveness with Keane- there was some odd signings, decisions and our squad looked weak 'on paper' but the backing for him and the players was excellent and definitely helped spur us on in some crucial games.

 

[Stormo]

Reading that twitter link, the mags are saying they don't get Sky TV money until the end of the season. Does that mean we've just got £100 million for finishing bottom, and then start getting the £40 million parachute money at the end of this season?

Yes

 

[Mrjardine]

The amount of time you spend on This board is worrying me reiver

Tidied mate

 

[The Fish]

So far this close season, you haven't been able to. The draw of the Capital far outweighs the North East now, your days of being able to attract decent players by paying over the odds are gone.

To be fair we also had a midtable Premier League club to offer them at least. As it stands our uncertain future will be as big a concern as the proximity to Blyth and Whitley Bay.

We had that sense of forgiveness with Keane- there was some odd signings, decisions and our squad looked weak 'on paper' but the backing for him and the players was excellent and definitely helped spur us on in some crucial games.

If the crowd can get behind them en masse that'll be worth something. My biggest concern is that Rafa walks and whoever comes in inherits someone else's team and a horrible toxic atmosphere at an increasingly sparsely attended ground.

 

[Wakey ftm in Sussex]

Tidied mate

FFS - don't you start showing humour, I just couldn't cope

 

[Reiver]

The amount of time I spend following Reiver around the board is worrying my wife and kids.

Seriously, get a life man ......

 

[AlpineExile]

To be fair we also had a midtable Premier League club to offer them at least. As it stands our uncertain future will be as big a concern as the proximity to Blyth and Whitley Bay.


If the crowd can get behind them en masse that'll be worth something. My biggest concern is that Rafa walks and whoever comes in inherits someone else's team and a horrible toxic atmosphere at an increasingly sparsely attended ground.

Would you have the balls to come on here if that happened? Or is that really your biggest concern?