Pros for buying SAFC vs NUFC

[What A Waster]

Bless

Obsessed/you live on here/mag on Sunderland forum/rafagation/6 in a row

 

[The Fish]

There's a reason Ashley wants out asap and it may have something to do with a nasty situation in the offing. Sunderland and Newcastle are similar in size similar in loyal fan base why wouldn't an investor choose the much cheaper option if only to protect their investment if things go wrong. After all nothing is guaranteed in football.

There's a few reasons Ashley wants out, it's not just the looming tax case. To follow your logic, why would anyone invest in Everton, or Leicester, when they could invest in Bristol or Ipswich?

I feel I'm repeating myself, but Newcastle are closer to Premier League stability than Sunderland at the minute. We've already got a larger stadium. We've already got a top manager. We've already got a happy, engaged, fan base who're attending at near capacity. We've a large domestic media footprint already (arguably a decent sized footprint on the continent too). We've been underperforming on the commercial side of things because of choices made by the incumbent owner.

The last point might be key, before Ashley Newcastle United made more money from commercial revenue streams than Spurs. Ashley prefers to use the advertising opportunities to hawk his own tat, but should we explore the kind of sponsors, advertisers, and commercial partners that we see working with other Premier League clubs we could see commercial revenue spike.

 

[Sima]

Not to mention more success on the pitch improves the value of our kit sponsorship deals. But aye apart from that and our commercial revenue we're 'maxed out'.

Very few businesses are maxed out.

 

[70s traveller]

Apart from the airport you haven't given any specifics. There's nothing that stands out that would sway the decision for a footballer. Shops, city housing, rural housing,night life, quiet life, schools. Every major city can pretty much offer the same. The primary consideration for them is how much will I get, is the squad decent and will I get a game. Good players will go to the north east if the club will pay what they want and the team are reasonably successful. The idea that they are put off by the area is a nonsense.

:
It's mainly about that for a player nowadays: money leads them as it's a relatively short earnings career and they'll move anywhere as long as they're getting what they want! Especially if there's an airport nearby!!

Attracting tons of interest though aren’t we?!


Investors don’t want big challenges do they, they want sure things. Sunderland’s current position doesn’t compare to Newcastle’s in that regard.

Investors want signs of returns from their business investments from day one, challenges are a risk that only a small few would risk, In which case NUFC are in a better financial position for a sale, but it's all about what we can be bought for in the current situation and what it would cost to clear the debts and begin the club-rebuild for playing structure wise

 

[Grumpy Old Man]

:
It's mainly about that for a player nowadays: money leads them as it's a relatively short earnings career and they'll move anywhere as long as they're getting what they want! Especially if there's an airport nearby!!


Investors want signs of returns from their business investments from day one, challenges are a risk that only a small few would risk, In which case NUFC are in a better financial position for a sale, but it's all about what we can be bought for in the current situation and what it would cost to clear the debts and begin the club-rebuild for playing structure wise

I'd reckon about £150m less than what Ashely appears to be looking for for NUFC. If a new owner is hyper-rich and money no object, and effectively wants a PL club as a status symbol and plaything, it's pretty clear that, at the moment NUFC would be much more attractive. If you're concerned with a possible investment upside, then, for a patient investor, we might have more potential. Even after allowing for debt, Ashley is looking at taking something like a £140m profit on his investment. For anyone buying Newcastle for £400m, how much more upside is there in the value, once you allow for how much you might have to provide in backing. If you have to spend £500m to get them to a place where they're worth £1bn, then you're still only £100m up. You could probably generate the same or more by buying us for much less, and committing much less in addition. In essence, it all boils down to plaything vs investment.

 

[BigPete]

They will get another good owner and we will still be with Short.

I'd have Ashley over Short in a heartbeat, he's sorted out their club.

 

[keybuk]

:
It's mainly about that for a player nowadays: money leads them as it's a relatively short earnings career and they'll move anywhere as long as they're getting what they want! Especially if there's an airport nearby!!

Exactly. Why do people think that these fellas are happily going to China and Russia for any other reason than money.

Blaming the lack of quality on the area is looking for an excuse and also reinforcing the shit attitude to the area by people from outside who have no experience to back it up.

 

[70s traveller]

I'd reckon about £150m less than what Ashely appears to be looking for for NUFC. If a new owner is hyper-rich and money no object, and effectively wants a PL club as a status symbol and plaything, it's pretty clear that, at the moment NUFC would be much more attractive. If you're concerned with a possible investment upside, then, for a patient investor, we might have more potential. Even after allowing for debt, Ashley is looking at taking something like a £140m profit on his investment. For anyone buying Newcastle for £400m, how much more upside is there in the value, once you allow for how much you might have to provide in backing. If you have to spend £500m to get them to a place where they're worth £1bn, then you're still only £100m up. You could probably generate the same or more by buying us for much less, and committing much less in addition. In essence, it all boils down to plaything vs investment.

That seems to be how football ownership is now, gone are the days of supporter chairmen/owners, it's largely about how much someone can make from an investment and whatever happens to that club is not in their concerns. As an example, let's see who ends up as owner: some middle east investor/US money man type or supporter [although I recall Ellis Short's patter about being a fan for pr reasons] or someone like the Hull owner who came in & wanted to rename the club Hull Tigers

Exactly. Why do people think that these fellas are happily going to China and Russia for any other reason than money.

Blaming the lack of quality on the area is looking for an excuse and also reinforcing the shit attitude to the area by people from outside who have no experience to back it up.

Spot on

 

[The Fish]

I'd reckon about £150m less than what Ashely appears to be looking for for NUFC. If a new owner is hyper-rich and money no object, and effectively wants a PL club as a status symbol and plaything, it's pretty clear that, at the moment NUFC would be much more attractive. If you're concerned with a possible investment upside, then, for a patient investor, we might have more potential. Even after allowing for debt, Ashley is looking at taking something like a £140m profit on his investment. For anyone buying Newcastle for £400m, how much more upside is there in the value, once you allow for how much you might have to provide in backing. If you have to spend £500m to get them to a place where they're worth £1bn, then you're still only £100m up. You could probably generate the same or more by buying us for much less, and committing much less in addition. In essence, it all boils down to plaything vs investment.

I think Newcastle's potential for growth is huge, depends on the owner's resources and their ambition.

I asked another poster how much it would cost to make Sunderland a midtable Premier League team, let alone a team competing for Europa League spots?

 

[Confucius]

I wouldn't tell him he was shit but I'd have found something else for him to do.

BUT, that's not even a comparison. The whole of Sunderland is shit which is why I moved away. Only back for matches although haven't been to to the last two home matches and not missed it.

Is it fuck man and I'm not even from there. Maybe that is what Lewberry is alluding too. Cruddas Park, Byker and Walker are f***ing shitholes and Sunderland has some nice areas too.

 

[jonny gently]

Bless

Aw

 

[The Fish]

Is it fuck man and I'm not even from there. Maybe that is what Lewberry is alluding too. Cruddas Park, Byker and Walker are f***ing shitholes and Sunderland has some nice areas too.

In the City itself, or nearby?

Not being a dick, I've maybe been to Sunderland 5 or 6 times and never really explored it to be honest.

 

[jonny gently]

I think Newcastle's potential for growth is huge, depends on the owner's resources and their ambition.

I asked another poster how much it would cost to make Sunderland a midtable Premier League team, let alone a team competing for Europa League spots?

If you get a mega rich Arab, money no object, then you may have a chance of huge growth but then arguably so would we. Plus we have the advantage in being able to increase capacity to around 63-65,000 possibly more.

 

[naughtynose]

52k stadium that's well maintained and well attended
Top manager
Unified, happy fanbase
Premier League team, and look good for survival thus far.
No external debt (just to Ashley)
Potential to grow commercial revenue which has stagnated due to current owner
City centre location with excellent transport links

vs

40k stadium which has been neglected with dropping attendances*
Average-to-poor manager
Fanbase that's somewhere between furious and apathetic*
Championship and not looking good for an immediate return thus far.
External debt
Not a city centre location, without excellent transport links

It's a no brainer for me Jeff.


*not a dig at all. I get why people aren't forking out their hard earned money to go and watch Sunderland at the minute.

SOL is 49k

 

[The Fish]

If you get a mega rich Arab, money no object, then you may have a chance of huge growth but then arguably so would we. Plus we have the advantage in being able to increase capacity to around 63-65,000 possibly more.

We can expand the Gallowgate and I'm not convinced it's impossible to expand the East Stand if we employ a creative enough architect.

Also, if we've a "money is no object" owner, then we can build a new 70k stadium in Leazes Park

SOL is 49k

You're right, sorry.

 

[Confucius]

In the City itself, or nearby?

Not being a dick, I've maybe been to Sunderland 5 or 6 times and never really explored it to be honest.

well considering Seaburn and Roker are in the City of Sunderland, I would say the former. A bit like Walker, Byker and Cruddas Park are in Newcastle
Sunderland City Centre is a dive but to say the "whole of Sunderland is", is clearly bullshit
Newcastle has a great city centre but is surrounded by some shitholes.

 

[LondonMackem]

We have a better ground, state of the art training facility which is all paid for. We will be cheaper by around £200 million and have similar levels of debt.

They have a better squad, they have £100 million a year TV money but there is little doubt that if somebody wanted to "buy" the Championship then it could be done with SAFC without too much trouble. You would end up with a Premier league football club for a smaller investment than buying the mags.

In terms of fanbase both are similar and any threat of success and both stadiums would be sold out each week.

Depends what you want I guess....Sunderland is primed and ready for a revolution and for somebody to make themselves an absolute legend as an owner.....Newcastle is on a hiding to nothing unless you have the really big money to throw at it like the Arabs as massive spending in the Prem will buy you mid table these days.

Good post that

 

[jonny gently]

I'd reckon about £150m less than what Ashely appears to be looking for for NUFC. If a new owner is hyper-rich and money no object, and effectively wants a PL club as a status symbol and plaything, it's pretty clear that, at the moment NUFC would be much more attractive. If you're concerned with a possible investment upside, then, for a patient investor, we might have more potential. Even after allowing for debt, Ashley is looking at taking something like a £140m profit on his investment. For anyone buying Newcastle for £400m, how much more upside is there in the value, once you allow for how much you might have to provide in backing. If you have to spend £500m to get them to a place where they're worth £1bn, then you're still only £100m up. You could probably generate the same or more by buying us for much less, and committing much less in addition. In essence, it all boils down to plaything vs investment.

Newcastle would also be competing with much more established clubs and the danger for them is that even offering better wage packages they'd lose out for the top, top players because even the Liverpools and Tottenhams are hugely more attractive clubs. Chelsea, Man City, Arsenal and Man Utd are virtually uncatchable. Everton even though they're struggling at the moment will also be tough to displace.

 

[Confucius]

well considering Seaburn and Roker are in the City of Sunderland, I would say the former. A bit like Walker, Byker and Cruddas Park are in Newcastle
Sunderland City Centre is a dive but to say the "whole of Sunderland is", is clearly bullshit
Newcastle has a great city centre but is surrounded by some shitholes.

By the way I'm not singing the virtues of Sunderland nor denigrating Newcastle, just trying to balance things out there. I note with interest that people are saying Sunderland has a shite city centre, then another minus is that the SoL isn't in the City Centre. Prospective buyers will primarily look at the club, the infrastructure, support etc. The City Centre will be secondary, Newcastle players live in Northumberland don't they?

 

[jonny gently]

We can expand the Gallowgate and I'm not convinced it's impossible to expand the East Stand if we employ a creative enough architect.

Also, if we've a "money is no object" owner, then we can build a new 70k stadium in Leazes Park


You're right, sorry.

Good luck with the Green mob.