Proof of the after life

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This is more a Near Death experience than any definitive proof of the afterlife When my younger sister was born in 92, my mam died for 4 minutes before being brought around by doctors, She recalls a nurse talking to my dad while my dad was holding my sister then everything went black and silent, almost like if you had closed your eyes but couldn't open them.

She described nothing, there was nothing for what seemed like ages, then almost like she was flicking through a photobook, glimpses of moments of the past, then her eyes opened and she was stood in a room with an almost blinding bright white light flooding the room, she remembers in an instant being at a chair where her dad was sitting knitting, he smiles and shakes his head as a no and goes to say something and my mam wakes up with three doctors surrounding her and my dad with his hands on his head around the bed.

Personally i don't really believe in NDE's or the afterlife but it's interesting all the same as my mam is a very rational person, not someone who makes up things, as i say though, it's hard to tell but it's likely some undiscovered mechanism of the brain reconciling what is happening to it.

As for lucid dreaming i've never experienced anything vivid but i have had night terrors for about 18 years now and wouldn't wish it on my worst enemies, waking up bolt upright panicking and screaming at something you have no idea of the origin of is frankly f***ing terrfying and something that never gets any easier, the one's i've mentioned above are severe examples, minor ones where you can shrug them off are bad but tolerable, really bad ones where it genuinely feels like there is a unseen presence after you f***ing frighten me no end.
 


Unbalanced Views said:
When you die, that's it, you're dead, pretending there's anything further is like telling the kids to behave and if they're good you'll take them to McDonalds or something later.
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It does seem insane that anybody would ever think anything else, but millions do because that is what they have been told.
 
genericus said:
....Personally i don't really believe in NDE's or the afterlife but it's interesting all the same as my mam is a very rational person, not someone who makes up things, as i say though, it's hard to tell but it's likely some undiscovered mechanism of the brain reconciling what is happening to it.......
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I believe the NDEs as they are actual experiences but the interpretation is where the problem arises. I think they are a result of the brain shutting down but something is clearly happening although I don't think it may have anything to do with an afterlife as during the NDE the person is clearly still alive neurologically.
 
Mercia Blackcat said:
I believe the NDEs as they are actual experiences but the interpretation is where the problem arises. I think they are a result of the brain shutting down but something is clearly happening although I don't think it may have anything to do with an afterlife as during the NDE the person is clearly still alive neurologically.
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it's interesting either way and shows how little we know of what's inside our own heads
 
Mercia Blackcat said:
Yes it is something to do with the genetics passed on. Apparently we can have such effects passed on from our grandparents.

The consciousness issue is interesting. I'll diverge for a moment. In dualistic religious and philosophical systems (not necessarily overtly theistic) there is an external universal consciousness and an individual consciousness that has separated. However, non-dualistic systems reject this separate duality and state that there is only the singularity of consciousness. That any perceived separation is an illusion. Samkhya (Ancient Yoga) and Vedanta (Upanishads) belong to the dualistic schools, whereas Buddhism, and Advaita Vedanta belong to the non-dualistic schools. The emergence of Advaita Vedanta from Vedanta brought their perspective more in line with Buddhism around 1200 years ago so non-dualism is the dominant philosophy today in the East.



The problem with that is that it indicates the dualistic existence of an individual entity, soul, being, consciousness or self which are simply constructs of the mind that have no inherent substance.

I am not dismissing the experiences of those that have NDEs but whatever the explanation I do not believe it involves an ethereal individual entity that can leave the body.

What percentage of NDEs actually involve an out-of-body experience flying around the room?

Some of the other experiences described are interesting though such as that of consciousness in a vacuity, strange perception of time, perception of transparent space, visions of light, felling dragged through an ocean of water, memories flashing in a random sequence.

Edit: That should say, feeling dragged through an ocean of water.

PS: I would also be interested in any other experiences early in the process such as feeling as if a heavy weight was pressing down (that the body was extremely heavy) and mirage like hallucinations.

Although the mirage hallucinations could be covered by seeing people from the past you had known.

These experiences could all add up to form a valid neurological sequence of event experienced by the dying brain. This doesn't mean they would be of no value, in fact the opposite. If the sequence was known to that person they may be able to navigate through the course of the process to an experiences of blissful peace.
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Can't remember who it was but I saw an argument about consciousness the other day that went something like this...

If you replaced a neuron in our brain with an engineered artificial neuron, one that worked in exactly the same way as a neuron, then kept doing it 1 by 1 until every neuron had been replaced with an artificial one, would your consciousness still be the same one you started with?

Some say it would. Quite a mind-boggler when you think about it.
 
genericus said:
it's interesting either way and shows how little we know of what's inside our own heads
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The part about your mam's experience I found interesting was the non personal part in which she described:

She described nothing, there was nothing for what seemed like ages, then almost like she was flicking through a photobook, glimpses of moments of the past, then her eyes opened and she was stood in a room with an almost blinding bright white light flooding the room....

So she describes being in a vacuity with only her consciousness present and a slow passage of time as if time had slowed down for her whereas for those around her it was only minutes. She also describes a bright white light and images passing before her from the past.

These experiences are consistent with many NDEs but also correlate to experiences in meditation which is also a process of dissolution in which aspects of our own being dissolve away into emptiness. It's interesting that your mam doesn't appear to have experienced anxiety or fear when she experienced the vacuity.

bigmarlon said:
Can't remember who it was but I saw an argument about consciousness the other day that went something like this...

If you replaced a neuron in our brain with an engineered artificial neuron, one that worked in exactly the same way as a neuron, then kept doing it 1 by 1 until every neuron had been replaced with an artificial one, would your consciousness still be the same one you started with?

Some say it would. Quite a mind-boggler when you think about it.
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The impression I have had is that consciousness is non-computational. So no matter how exact a replica of the human brain could be constructed using artificial intelligence it would still never experience consciousness as we do. To replace every neuron with an artificial one and still retain consciousness as before, then there must be some other aspect to consciousness that we don't understand yet.
 
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Mercia Blackcat said:
The part about your mam's experience I found interesting was the non personal part in which she described:

She described nothing, there was nothing for what seemed like ages, then almost like she was flicking through a photobook, glimpses of moments of the past, then her eyes opened and she was stood in a room with an almost blinding bright white light flooding the room....

So she describes being in a vacuity with only her consciousness present and a slow passage of time as if time had slowed down for her whereas for those around her it was only minutes. She also describes a bright white light and images passing before her from the past.

These experiences are consistent with many NDEs but also correlate to experiences in meditation which is also a process of dissolution in which aspects of our own being dissolve away into emptiness. It's interesting that at your mam doesn't appear to have experienced anxiety or fear when she experienced the vacuity.



The impression I have had is that consciousness is non-computational. So no matter how exact a replica of the human brain could be constructed using artificial intelligence it would still never experience consciousness as we do. To replace every neuron with an artificial one and still retain consciousness as before, then there must be some other aspect to consciousness that we don't understand yet.
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Quite the opposite, she described it as a feeling of warmth and contentment
 
Mercia Blackcat said:
The impression I have had is that consciousness is non-computational. So no matter how exact a replica of the human brain could be constructed using artificial intelligence it would still never experience consciousness as we do. To replace every neuron with an artificial one and still retain consciousness as before, then there must be some other aspect to consciousness that we don't understand yet.
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People with brain tumors have had half their brain removed and still retained their "normal" consciousness and level of awareness. I'm having a brainfart day today so can't really add anything else, so I'll just post this..

 
genericus said:
Quite the opposite, she described it as a feeling of warmth and contentment
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If she had been meditating I would say she had reached a very high level/state/experience. She appears to have then come down and out of that experience into a more mundane experience of light. The vacuity is the aim of meditation.
 
dangermows said:
Artist who died for SEVEN minutes before coming back to life shares art to show what death is like | Daily Mail Online

Doesn't sound too dissimilar to when I used to fly out of my body when asleep, except it absolutely knacked when I returned before waking up.

:cool:
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weve had threads like this before and I have explained what happened to me.
On my 6th cardiac arrest I couldn't be resuscitated. I knew I was slipping away. it felt as though I was in a bath, where the water had gone cold and it was now being refilled toe to head. It felt as though I had no worries and had just thrown a heavy rucksack off my back. Most peaceful time in my life. I flatlined

next thing I knew was a nurse holding my hand and the doctors trying to put a needle in my chest (for the aorta IIRC) it hurt like hell
 
Nobody can verify the afterlife exists. Fact.

bigmarlon said:
If you replaced a neuron in our brain with an engineered artificial neuron, one that worked in exactly the same way as a neuron, then kept doing it 1 by 1 until every neuron had been replaced with an artificial one, would your consciousness still be the same one you started with?
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Borg.
 
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Not surprised that these stories are always run by the "Daily Heil". The greater part of its readership is so decrepit that most of them will find out the real answer on the basis of their own personal experience with in the next couple of years or so. :lol:
 
dangermows said:
Class thread.



This.
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Poor edit. As a proof, how about the laws of thermodynamics? Energy can not be created or destroyed only converted from one form to another. My brain is currently using electrical energy which it has obtained by digesting my breakfast. Same as the movement of my fingers. It has all been fuelled in some way.

Ghosts/spirits/afterlife are not consuming energy, therefore they can not expend it. As well as not having a physical brain, any afterlife must live in a zero energy state, which makes all thought and movement impossible. Here is a proof it can’t exist but no proof has ever been given that can explain how ghosts can exist in our physical universe.
 
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