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People were wrong about Short ...

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WHD said:
Tbf, he tried with a Dof, and without. I would hardly class that as repeating the same mistakes. Obviously he didn't have a clue what would work, but he tried different things. Old hand managers who should have done better and up and coming managers who were a bit of a gamble.

He made mistakes without a doubt, but again I wouldn't class it as repeating the same mistakes - unless of course, people think sacking the manager was the mistake he kept repeating? If so then I refer you to our relegation from the premier league which was the only time he didn't sack the manager.
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The mistakes he kept repeating mate were short term thinking with no properly thought out,properly funded plan which everyone he employed could buy into. He never had a workable,same page relationship with any of the managers he appointed and as soon as we hit a bad patch he sacked them and did the same thing again. Yes,there were some chancy appointments,but there were also some experienced managers too, but they were always accompanied by a scattergun approach to their job,never able to plan for the future. Apart from Bruce,none of them lasted more than 18 months,and only Poyet and O'Neil made it beyond a year! 13 managers in 9 and a half years,including caretakers!! Did it never occur to him as we were digging ourselves out of yet another last ditch relegation that something might be wrong,even as he was writing another compensation cheque to pay off someone else. I won't even start to mention the CEO's....that's another disaster!
 

Reiver said:
You're spot on with that mate.

The trouble is that hindsight and foresight are often in the same disguise ...

.... it's not until the mask comes off until we know if it's good or bad.

Was it foresight to employ di Canio who saved us but, in hindsight, a terrible error?

Same goes for Moyes who many supporters had often wished for when he had Everton over performing year after year.

Advocat was 'world class' and saved us but was a disaster in hindsight.

We just have to pray the new people make more good decisions than bad.
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The thing for me is that all those managers failed who were previously successful, so has always pointed to something wider. I strongly believe that a successful football club needs the right people in non football roles as well. Which is something we have failed to do.
 
WHD said:
That's the problem, there's no guarantee it would have, and with the managers employed in the last few years it definitely wouldn't have, IMO. Multi millions would have had to have been spent on quality players to negate the inept management and make up the points to keep us up in the last two seasons (well definitely the in the premier league, a couple of million on a decent goal keeper may have made the difference this season - and not to forget, it is the inept managers choosing the players - Ndong & papy were who Moyes spend £20M on. Imagine the shite we'd have if he had £100m to spend).
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A half decent keeper would have kept us up easy , Coleman gotta take allot of the blame for thinking camp could do a job but Bain would have knocked him back on other targets ...he was a big part of the issue as anyone with a bit sense could see a spending on a keeper was needed, id imagine he never even bothered making a case to short (why he never was prob linked to his bonus)
 
DisillusionedOldGit said:
You do seem to be right about the mags mind. Knowing those jammy buggers though the king of all the awab mans will buy them .
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In your dreams..Ashley wants his £190 million and then some. The debt will only increase and rich Arabs dont look to the north east to purchase football clubs.
Ashley is lumbered with NUFC but once he gets bored of the free advertising he will drop you like a bad habit. Once your debt becomes external I would worry big time.

My
AndyH said:
I think that is a fair stance, people should probably wait to see the details of the buy out before they decide how much or how little of a hero short is. If he has paid off the debt, 100+ million and sold the club for a pound he would probably qualify to become the patron saint of Sunderland. On the other hand if he has sold the club for 100+ million then not so much.
The devil is in the detail as they say.
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If he has sold the club for £100 million then we have some very heavy backers.
The reality I expect to be different.We will now run a tight ship I expect.
He sold the club to be done with the responsibility but his last act was very responsible.
The bloke was poor at running a football club but being an American that doesn't surprise me. His last act will be the one he is remembered for in years to come. He did a decent thing that he wasn't obliged to do even if he was the creator of most of the financial mess our club was in.
 
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Reiver said:
How's that .... I'm not talking about you.

Loads of people have, for years, openly stated that he's a a crook, a conman, pocketing the club's money and deliberately targeting administration.

Some are still making those accusations to the point whereby the Mods have had to delete potentially libellous posts.

They're the people I'm talking about.
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Ah but what I meant was it’s possible to think he wasn’t a crook but still believe there may be a sting in the tail. Sorry if that’s not how it came across.
 
My stance has never shifted. I’ve never been a hater.
  • He appointed some people and put his trust in them that were a disaster. I don’t think he did that on purpose.
  • He gave managers money to sign players that were rubbish, he didn’t sign them or pick them.
  • Most of the managers he appointed were pretty popular appointments at the time, I’m not sure we can blame him for that.
  • Has he made mistakes, of course he has, did he make them on purpose or deliberately, of course he didn’t.
  • Was it time for him to go, probably because of the mood around the place.
  • Did he pump millions in, of course he did, badly advised millions, but millions nonetheless.
  • Did he leave us in a very decent position by paying off the debt, absolutely he did.
The bloke went to the races and met an Irish bloke who could sell ice creams to the Eskimos, it was a very expensive day out at Cheltenham, I bet he wishes his alarm had never gone off that morning.
 
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Stormo said:
I was wrong, I admit it. I thought he would take every parachute payment then stick us in administration. He did a very noble and decent thing writing off all the debt. Still his fault for where we are though.
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A perfect summary. It took many of us by surprise & not something very, very many businessman would do. He just didn't have a clue about football, but he's definitely an honest man with a good heart. We all know we'll bounce back, not if but when 100%. I really can't hold any hate for someone who has done the honest thing to a tune of £140m, I just cant. He'll obviously still follow us and could be a friendly investor for the future. Chuck another £20m our way please Ellis, just to buy players, and you'll be welcomed back in the city. Honesty & minerals count massively up here mate.
 
janey said:
My stance has never shifted. I’ve never been a hater.
  • He appointed some people and put his trust in them that were a disaster. I don’t think he did that on purpose.
  • He gave managers money to sign players that were rubbish, he didn’t sign them or pick them.
  • Most of the managers he appointed were pretty popular appointments at the time, I’m not sure we can blame him for that.
  • Has he made mistakes, of course he has, did he make them on purpose or deliberately, of course he didn’t.
  • Was it time for him to go, probably because of the mood around the place.
  • Did he pump millions in, of course he did, badly advised millions, but millions nonetheless.
  • Did he leave us in a very decent position by paying off the debt, absolutely he did.
The bloke went to the races and met an Irish bloke who could sell ice creams to the Eskimos, it was a very expensive day out at Cheltenham, I bet he wishes his alarm had never gone off that morning.
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That's pretty much it. He will be able to make the money back in a few weeks being a billionaire and that.
 
janey said:
My stance has never shifted. I’ve never been a hater.
  • He appointed some people and put his trust in them that were a disaster. I don’t think he did that on purpose.
  • He gave managers money to sign players that were rubbish, he didn’t sign them or pick them.
  • Most of the managers he appointed were pretty popular appointments at the time, I’m not sure we can blame him for that.
  • Has he made mistakes, of course he has, did he make them on purpose or deliberately, of course he didn’t.
  • Was it time for him to go, probably because of the mood around the place.
  • Did he pump millions in, of course he did, badly advised millions, but millions nonetheless.
  • Did he leave us in a very decent position by paying off the debt, absolutely he did.
The bloke went to the races and met an Irish bloke who could sell ice creams to the Eskimos, it was a very expensive day out at Cheltenham, I bet he wishes his alarm had never gone off that morning.
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I completely concur, excellent post Janey.
 
janey said:
The bloke went to the races and met an Irish bloke who could sell ice creams to the Eskimos, it was a very expensive day out at Cheltenham, I bet he wishes his alarm had never gone off that morning
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Yet he still smiles and says he's a MLF - That's the thing about SAFC when you get to know it you quickly realise you are hooked.
 
If I believed in such things I'd say it was that curse still hanging over us. MON was SAFC and it should have been beautiful, Quinny became SAFC and ended up getting stung and even Short got the club under his skin but failed - all we need now is SKP to be appointed and take us to the fourth tier. Cursed I tell thee...
 
janey said:
My stance has never shifted. I’ve never been a hater.
  • He appointed some people and put his trust in them that were a disaster. I don’t think he did that on purpose.
  • He gave managers money to sign players that were rubbish, he didn’t sign them or pick them.
  • Most of the managers he appointed were pretty popular appointments at the time, I’m not sure we can blame him for that.
  • Has he made mistakes, of course he has, did he make them on purpose or deliberately, of course he didn’t.
  • Was it time for him to go, probably because of the mood around the place.
  • Did he pump millions in, of course he did, badly advised millions, but millions nonetheless.
  • Did he leave us in a very decent position by paying off the debt, absolutely he did.
The bloke went to the races and met an Irish bloke who could sell ice creams to the Eskimos, it was a very expensive day out at Cheltenham, I bet he wishes his alarm had never gone off that morning.
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In a nutshell for me Janey.
 
WHD said:
Tbf, he tried with a Dof, and without. I would hardly class that as repeating the same mistakes. Obviously he didn't have a clue what would work, but he tried different things. Old hand managers who should have done better and up and coming managers who were a bit of a gamble.

He made mistakes without a doubt, but again I wouldn't class it as repeating the same mistakes - unless of course, people think sacking the manager was the mistake he kept repeating? If so then I refer you to our relegation from the premier league which was the only time he didn't sack the manager.
Click to expand...

Fact indeed, that it was the consequence of something bigger than not changing manager is a conclusion from an analysis of facts.

garyeaststand said:
A half decent keeper would have kept us up easy , Coleman gotta take allot of the blame for thinking camp could do a job but Bain would have knocked him back on other targets ...he was a big part of the issue as anyone with a bit sense could see a spending on a keeper was needed, id imagine he never even bothered making a case to short (why he never was prob linked to his bonus)
Click to expand...

So true...one player from being a championship club still. The other extreme to the extravagance shown in previous seasons.
 
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