People were wrong about Short ...

[pele]

In the absence of personal guarantees, they really couldn't. That's the entire point of limited liability and separation of legal personality.

Do you still collect match programmes, Grumps.

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[Mainze]

.... and it's killing them.

There must have been dozens of posters who vehemently insisted Short had a plan to take the club into administration and 'thereby line his pockets' or whatever. Even logical replies by people who understand finance, such as @Grumpy Old Man, were dismissed out of hand by people who 'knew better'.

I suspect this is the reason for so many of these 'I bet there are hidden clauses from Short and we'll be paying him for years' threads.

I've seen people claiming all kinds of dirty tricks regarding the takeover that will come back to haunt us, they simply refuse to believe we're debt free.

FFS lads, just accept he's done the decent thing and has given us the chance to draw a line on the past. Going back over Short, Bain, Byrne, etc etc etc is destructive and part of the problem. It's often said, on here, that there's a self destructive attitude from people who just happy clap and accept shit ..... so why don't those people look on the bright side, for once, and accept this opportunity to rebuild the club in the right way, just a thought.

Spot on.....I will still moan anyway about something like

He made a huge mess and it was only right he tried to fix. He did and fair play to him. He's gone now and we should all just move on.

Considering a membership of Skibo just to say a personal thanks.

 

[garyeaststand]

.... and it's killing them.

There must have been dozens of posters who vehemently insisted Short had a plan to take the club into administration and 'thereby line his pockets' or whatever. Even logical replies by people who understand finance, such as @Grumpy Old Man, were dismissed out of hand by people who 'knew better'.

I suspect this is the reason for so many of these 'I bet there are hidden clauses from Short and we'll be paying him for years' threads.

I've seen people claiming all kinds of dirty tricks regarding the takeover that will come back to haunt us, they simply refuse to believe we're debt free.

FFS lads, just accept he's done the decent thing and has given us the chance to draw a line on the past. Going back over Short, Bain, Byrne, etc etc etc is destructive and part of the problem. It's often said, on here, that there's a self destructive attitude from people who just happy clap and accept shit ..... so why don't those people look on the bright side, for once, and accept this opportunity to rebuild the club in the right way, just a thought.

Agree he done the right thing in the end, and grateful for it. However he washed his hands of us for two seasons , a small percentage of what he's paid off would have seen us ok that i can't understand. moyes , Grayson and Coleman should have done allot better mind

 

[Mainze]

Agree he done the right thing in the end, and grateful for it. However he washed his hands of us for two seasons , a small percentage of what he's paid off would have seen us ok that i can't understand. moyes , Grayson and Coleman should have done allot better mind

This, all 3 turned out to be f***ing awful appointments.

 

[Slow joe]

The way you're talking you'd think we were Barcelona and he'd overseen relegation.

Like it or not, we were a nothing club in relation to English football.

He came in and poured in a lot of money, when no one else was stepping forward to do that.

Didn't work, but then it hasn't worked at SAFC for nigh on 70 years, so the problem at the club, in terms of challenging for something; lies far beyond Ellis Short.

Weve won 12 games in 2yrs man.

 

[GiantHogweed]

.... and it's killing them.

There must have been dozens of posters who vehemently insisted Short had a plan to take the club into administration and 'thereby line his pockets' or whatever. Even logical replies by people who understand finance, such as @Grumpy Old Man, were dismissed out of hand by people who 'knew better'.

I suspect this is the reason for so many of these 'I bet there are hidden clauses from Short and we'll be paying him for years' threads.

I've seen people claiming all kinds of dirty tricks regarding the takeover that will come back to haunt us, they simply refuse to believe we're debt free.

FFS lads, just accept he's done the decent thing and has given us the chance to draw a line on the past. Going back over Short, Bain, Byrne, etc etc etc is destructive and part of the problem. It's often said, on here, that there's a self destructive attitude from people who just happy clap and accept shit ..... so why don't those people look on the bright side, for once, and accept this opportunity to rebuild the club in the right way, just a thought.

I hope you are correct,

But as bad as things have been ridden into the dirt by short and co, don't count yer chickens.

Imagine the EFL scuppering the agreement over improprieties in the deal...

Let's be honest...

Would anyone be surprised?

The deal can't close fast enough.

 

[Chewit]

fact is short is a canny bloke and a MLF who wanted what was best for the club. He was badly let down by his choice of employees who were probably recommended to him by someone else. People like byrne and bain not to mention a host of terrible managers and coaches.

The very best of managers in any industry cannot be successful without a ‘sustainable strategy’ and we didn’t have one at anytime.
We did have a strategy of sorts, this involved throwing tens of millions of pounds at the club every season and changing the Manager/CEO/DOF at every bad run of results.
Now that was not sustainable for two reasons, one Short was not going to do it forever and two the football financial rules won’t let you. So what did we think was going to happen when we stopped this ‘short’sighted approach.
All of this was Shorts strategy for the club. It was naive at best and in truth just chronically bad mismanagement.
I have no doubt his intention was honourable but it’s his fault no one else’s.

 

[Reiver]

I hope you are correct,

But as bad as things have been ridden into the dirt by short and co, don't count yer chickens.

Imagine the EFL scuppering the agreement over improprieties in the deal...

Let's be honest...

Would anyone be surprised?

The deal can't close fast enough.

Rather not if it's all the same to you mate

We've all had years of totally demoralising shite and we've surely had enough.

That's why I can't be arsed with people desperately claiming Short has left booby traps in the boardroom and mines under the pitch.

FFS, let's just accept the bloke has fired a screamer over our defensive wall and into the top corner before we blinked.

No one expected that ... not the media, not all the ITK's in the world and certainly not the supporters.

He's made us all look a bit daft, in a way, and some people can't laugh at it .... they just become indignant and accuse him of more thieving treachery.

People have been accusing him of stealing the TV/Henderson/Pickford money whereas the truth is that he's been pumping money in.

He's like a hapless burglar who's broken in, blundered around breaking all our ornaments but dropped his wallet as he escaped.

He's had the last laugh mate and I'd rather laugh along with him.

He may have caused some damage but we can claim on the insurance, tidy the place up and give it a lick of paint

 

[WHD]

Agree he done the right thing in the end, and grateful for it. However he washed his hands of us for two seasons , a small percentage of what he's paid off would have seen us ok that i can't understand. moyes , Grayson and Coleman should have done allot better mind

That's the problem, there's no guarantee it would have, and with the managers employed in the last few years it definitely wouldn't have, IMO. Multi millions would have had to have been spent on quality players to negate the inept management and make up the points to keep us up in the last two seasons (well definitely the in the premier league, a couple of million on a decent goal keeper may have made the difference this season - and not to forget, it is the inept managers choosing the players - Ndong & papy were who Moyes spend £20M on. Imagine the shite we'd have if he had £100m to spend).

 

[riffraff]

I wouldn't ask or expect you to, his time here has been a disaster.

My points were regarding those who kept claiming he was deliberately taking us into administration to 'line his pockets', banking the TV/Pickford money, etc.

A crook and a conman in other words.

Even though that was a ludicrous, probably fraudulent, concept people still kept insisting it was the truth.

And now people seem to be actually taking offence that he's made the club debt free.

They're desperately looking for a smoking gun to prove he's a crook .... almost as if they'd rather he'd left SAFC in debt than be proved wrong.

They've spent so much time believing he was a crook they can't even bring themselves to consider that perhaps he isn't.

Jumping to conclusions again.
I for one nivver thought he was a crook and I constantly posted that he wasnt a “Bond villain” just crap at running a football club. But that doesn’t mean I can’t still think there maybe a sting in the tail of this largesse and I’m sure there’s loads in a similar position.

 

[Reiver]

Jumping to conclusions again.
I for one nivver thought he was a crook and I constantly posted that he wasnt a “Bond villain” just crap at running a football club. But that doesn’t mean I can’t still think there maybe a sting in the tail of this largesse and I’m sure there’s loads in a similar position.

How's that .... I'm not talking about you.

Loads of people have, for years, openly stated that he's a a crook, a conman, pocketing the club's money and deliberately targeting administration.

Some are still making those accusations to the point whereby the Mods have had to delete potentially libellous posts.

They're the people I'm talking about.

 

[Secret Visage]

How's that .... I'm not talking about you.

Loads of people have, for years, openly stated that he's a a crook, a conman, pocketing the club's money and deliberately targeting administration.

Some are still making those accusations to the point whereby the Mods have had to delete potentially libellous posts.

They're the people I'm talking about.

Idiots, in other words.

 

[AndyH]

Jumping to conclusions again.
I for one nivver thought he was a crook and I constantly posted that he wasnt a “Bond villain” just crap at running a football club. But that doesn’t mean I can’t still think there maybe a sting in the tail of this largesse and I’m sure there’s loads in a similar position.

I think that is a fair stance, people should probably wait to see the details of the buy out before they decide how much or how little of a hero short is. If he has paid off the debt, 100+ million and sold the club for a pound he would probably qualify to become the patron saint of Sunderland. On the other hand if he has sold the club for 100+ million then not so much.
The devil is in the detail as they say.

 

[GBSAFC]

I'm not getting involved in this but this thread in itself seems to prove that goes both ways.

absolutely... the guy has made some epic corker mistakes ... but (it would seem) has tried to undo some of them.... shades of grey

 

[walesie]

A look at the accounts this morning suggests there's definitely a few on this thread that got in wrong about short.

 

[Mackemansj1]

Might want to hang fire on shorty the good guy that’s made us debt free talk.

Amounts written off by Short are unlikely to include outstanding transfer fees owed. £23.3m was owed to clubs in the 2017/18 season, and a further £22m is due for payment after 31 July 2018. These costs will need to be met, more than likely by the new owners.

 

[Deleted member 7101]

The very best of managers in any industry cannot be successful without a ‘sustainable strategy’ and we didn’t have one at anytime.
We did have a strategy of sorts, this involved throwing tens of millions of pounds at the club every season and changing the Manager/CEO/DOF at every bad run of results.
Now that was not sustainable for two reasons, one Short was not going to do it forever and two the football financial rules won’t let you. So what did we think was going to happen when we stopped this ‘short’sighted approach.
All of this was Shorts strategy for the club. It was naive at best and in truth just chronically bad mismanagement.
I have no doubt his intention was honourable but it’s his fault no one else’s.

Good post. The surprising thing is that Short never learned from his mistakes...he just kept on making them. Even in this last 12 months,we've had 3 different managers. Only difference is that he stopped giving out the cash to the last two. I've no sympathy for these players,but it's no wonder they didn't know if they were on their arse or their elbow.

 

[Reiver]

Might want to hang fire on shorty the good guy that’s made us debt free talk.

I never imagined he'd be taking care of future payments, players wages, loans, etc.

My point is specifically about borrowed money/debt and the fact that Short wasn't targeting admin as people have claimed.

On the other hand he would appear to have no lieu on future sales of players so it would pretty much balance out.

 

[WHD]

Good post. The surprising thing is that Short never learned from his mistakes...he just kept on making them. Even in this last 12 months,we've had 3 different managers. Only difference is that he stopped giving out the cash to the last two. I've no sympathy for these players,but it's no wonder they didn't know if they were on their arse or their elbow.

Which mistakes did he keep repeating?

 

[walesie]

I never imagined he'd be taking care of future payments, players wages, loans, etc.

My point is specifically about borrowed money/debt and the fact that Short wasn't targeting admin as people have claimed.

On the other hand he would appear to have no lieu on future sales of players so it would pretty much balance out.

We're owed 35m less than we owe. About as balanced as mini me and Gemma Collins on a seesaw.

Which mistakes did he keep repeating?

Lurching from manager to manager without a clear strategy. Employing charlatans.