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Paul Collingwood on Loyalty

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Eh? What?

I'll spell it out for you:

Has anyone asked the Durham players why they are leaving?
If so and they know - then what are Durham going to do about it.
If they havent asked - isnt it about time that they did?

Finally, the clincher:

If someone is seriously saying that the players should stay here out of loyalty when - they can earn more money playing for someone else, can play in the first division rather than the backwater of the second division and have more of a chance of playing for England then they are seriously delusional.

If Durham want their cricketers to stay then here is a few ideas:

Pay them more, and
Get into the first division

Its like asking Defoe to play in the football league for Sunderland when he can play in the premier league. No one with any ambition is going to do that.

They were offered brilliant deals, they didn't leave because of the money.

No its not like asking Defoe to do that at all

Again, as per your posts on the other thread, you are tying to apply football to cricket

Its two different sports, please don't combine the same principles
 

They were offered brilliant deals, they didn't leave because of the money.
When did those meetings take place and since you seem to have been there please tell us what they were offered money wise in comparison to the clubs they went to. Rounded up to the nearest pound will do.
 
When did those meetings take place and since you seem to have been there please tell us what they were offered money wise in comparison to the clubs they went to. Rounded up to the nearest pound will do.

No thanks

I am not going to get sensible conversation out of you this morning, so I'll leave it there
 
No thanks

I am not going to get sensible conversation out of you this morning, so I'll leave it there
In other words you are shooting from the hip and have absolutely no idea how much they were offered.

As I say Durham CCC need to ask themselves why people are leaving and do something about it. There is nothing sensible about your conversation piece, its just excuse making.
 
Eh? What?

I'll spell it out for you:

Has anyone asked the Durham players why they are leaving?
If so and they know - then what are Durham going to do about it.
If they havent asked - isnt it about time that they did?

Finally, the clincher:

If someone is seriously saying that the players should stay here out of loyalty when - they can earn more money playing for someone else, can play in the first division rather than the backwater of the second division and have more of a chance of playing for England then they are seriously delusional.

If Durham want their cricketers to stay then here is a few ideas:

Pay them more, and
Get into the first division

Its like asking Defoe to play in the football league for Sunderland when he can play in the premier league. No one with any ambition is going to do that.
It's a funny world when someone decides they are leaving and the assumption is no one would have asked them why? :confused:

Love the idea that the answer is to pay them more and be promoted to the 1st division.


I'll just note one thing.
The season before last Durham nearly went bust there was a meeting with all the players because the fear was that Durham wouldn't be able to pay the wage bill. That's bound to have improved morale!
 
It's a funny world when someone decides they are leaving and the assumption is no one would have asked them why? :confused:

Love the idea that the answer is to pay them more and be promoted to the 1st division.

I'll just note one thing.
The season before last Durham nearly went bust there was a meeting with all the players because the fear was that Durham wouldn't be able to pay the wage bill. That's bound to have improved morale!
Collingwood gives us no clues in his article if he asked them or not. If he wont ask the question then I'm asking it. Why did they leave?

Also you are suggesting that lads who want to play for England, or have ambition are happy to play in division 2? Its a sporting consequence of relegation that the better players or those with ambition would want to leave and play at the highest level, since time immemorial.

Essentially though your final bit of your post probably hits the nail on the head. Durham's wage cap went from what - nigh on £1.75m to £850k? Probably tells you right there why he left and blows out of the water any theory that Durham could hope to match the wages being paid by other clubs - particularly those in division 1, particularly of course, Surrey, where Rocky and Borthwick went to.

We have no money and people will chase the money. If you are 25 years old I dont blame them for doing so.
 
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They were offered brilliant deals, they didn't leave because of the money.

No its not like asking Defoe to do that at all

Again, as per your posts on the other thread, you are tying to apply football to cricket

Its two different sports, please don't combine the same principles
Durham could not get near matching the package Surrey offered Rocky and Borthwick not just in terms of money but length and terms of contract. That has been shown by Borthwick this close season.
With the imposed salary cap which Durham have said they will stay within even when it expires and until they are happy with the finances themselves, there is no way Durham could match these other counties contract terms for some of the best players on the county circuit.
After they have paid Collingwood one of the highest salaries on the county circuit there is not a great deal of spare cash left to pay another half dozen players top county salaries.
 
After they have paid Collingwood one of the highest salaries on the county circuit there is not a great deal of spare cash left to pay another half dozen players top county salaries.
Its an interesting one isnt it? Perhaps if Collingwood wasnt earning so much money they would have money to keep the likes of Coughlin et al.

Maybe Collingwood should have taken a pay cut and stayed out of "loyalty".
 
Its an interesting one isnt it? Perhaps if Collingwood wasnt earning so much money they would have money to keep the likes of Coughlin et al.

Maybe Collingwood should have taken a pay cut and stayed out of "loyalty".
I have no problem with Colly earning the salary he does but with Durhams finances and salary cap its simple economics that they can't pay to many that sort of money. The advantage with Colly is he signs 12 month deals which means the club are not committed to a long term deal like they did with Harmy.
 
I have no problem with Colly earning the salary he does but with Durhams finances and salary cap its simple economics that they can't pay to many that sort of money. The advantage with Colly is he signs 12 month deals which means the club are not committed to a long term deal like they did with Harmy.
Yes but its a bit rich of Collingwood to be moaning on about players leaving for more money (which appears to be the case) and that they should be staying out of loyalty when he is probably earning the highest salary of anyone at the club.

Money talks - it always did and always will.
 
We just have to accept that Durham are not the richest cricket club there is and even with sal;ary caps
Yes but its a bit rich of Collingwood to be moaning on about players leaving for more money (which appears to be the case) and that they should be staying out of loyalty when he is probably earning the highest salary of anyone at the club.

Money talks - it always did and always will.
I don't know if he does or not. But if he does he deserves it quite apart from being club captain.
 
Yes but its a bit rich of Collingwood to be moaning on about players leaving for more money (which appears to be the case) and that they should be staying out of loyalty when he is probably earning the highest salary of anyone at the club.

Money talks - it always did and always will.
Someone has to be the highest salary earner and to be fair it should be him. The most consistent performer in the side for the last few seasons and double the age of the squad. Fair play to the bloke
 
We just have to accept that Durham are not the richest cricket club there is and even with sal;ary caps

I don't know if he does or not. But if he does he deserves it quite apart from being club captain.
I'm not saying that he doesnt. what I'm saying is that its a bit rich of collingwood, from such a lofty position as the clubs highest paid player, to be saying that people should stay out of loyalty and not chase the money.

A few on here appear to agree with Collingwood that players should stay out of loyalty. IMHO that world disappeared a while ago and it certainly disappeared when Durham's wage cap got cut in half. A consequence of running the club shabbily is the cut in the wage limit and players leaving for clubs that will pay more money than Durham. I'm surprised that it comes as a shock to anyone.

I'm as big a fan of DCCC as anyone but I'm not blind to the outcome and consequences of running the club into financial oblivion.
 
I'm not saying that he doesnt. what I'm saying is that its a bit rich of collingwood, from such a lofty position as the clubs highest paid player, to be saying that people should stay out of loyalty and not chase the money.
By that statement he is right as he hasnt chased the money, he has stayed put and accepted terms from DCCC. If he had chased the money he wouldnt be at Durham would he?
 
Someone has to be the highest salary earner and to be fair it should be him. The most consistent performer in the side for the last few seasons and double the age of the squad. Fair play to the bloke
Again I'm not saying that he shouldnt be. What I'm saying is that from that lofty position its very easy to tell others not to chase the money. I'm not surprised that that falls on deaf ears. Coughlin for example owes a loyalty to himself and his family and its incumbent upon him to get the best deal for himself that he can. I'd do exactly the same.

Borthwick stayed too long at Durham IMHO and never kicked on with England. He should have left DCCC a couple of years before he did and who knows where he may be now.
 
I'm not saying that he doesnt. what I'm saying is that its a bit rich of collingwood, from such a lofty position as the clubs highest paid player, to be saying that people should stay out of loyalty and not chase the money.

A few on here appear to agree with Collingwood that players should stay out of loyalty. IMHO that world disappeared a while ago and it certainly disappeared when Durham's wage cap got cut in half. A consequence of running the club shabbily is the cut in the wage limit and players leaving for clubs that will pay more money than Durham. I'm surprised that it comes as a shock to anyone.

I'm as big a fan of DCCC as anyone but I'm not blind to the outcome and consequences of running the club into financial oblivion.
Why?

Colly has been tapped up for at least the past two seasons by Strauss for a role in the England team and has decided to stay and play 'just one more season' with Durham for the past 3 seasons. He's done his bit. He preferred to stay and play.
 
By that statement he is right as he hasnt chased the money, he has stayed put and accepted terms from DCCC. If he had chased the money he wouldnt be at Durham would he?
Well you would be if you were getting £200k per annum (or whatever) and no one else could match it. I dont know how much Colly earns but it could be that his wage is swallowing up the vast majority of whats available, and who knows he may be one of the best paid players on the county circuit - in either division.

Why?

Colly has been tapped up for at least the past two seasons by Strauss for a role in the England team and has decided to stay and play 'just one more season' with Durham for the past 3 seasons. He's done his bit. He preferred to stay and play.
Well there are perhaps 2 reasons why he stayed. One I wont go into but the second one is that he may be one of the highest paid players on the county circuit and perhaps that money dwarfs what England would pay. I'd be happy to be "loyal" if I was getting a kings ransom.

Not only that but he does do England duties as well doesnt he?
 
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Well you would be if you were getting £200k per annum (or whatever) and no one else could match it. I dont know how much Colly earns but it could be that his wage is swallowing up the vast majority of whats available, and who knows he may be one of the best paid players on the county circuit - in either division.
Your clearly not chasing anything if you are staying at the same club for 20+years (albeit some of that was during England career)
 
Your clearly not chasing anything if you are staying at the same club for 20+years (albeit some of that was during England career)
You clearly are if you are getting paid a fortune for staying put. What incentive is there to leave if you are being paid a fortune and are perhaps one of the best paid players on the county circuit? Who else would have him and pay him what he gets at Durham at this stage of his career? I would suggest probably no one.

As you say yourself, when he played for England it didnt matter really which club he was contracted to because he never played for them anyway, although as I remember it Colly got a share of the win bonus when DCCC won their county championships even though he never played a game; isnt that right? I'm sure that everyone contracted to the county champions gets some share of the pot.

I dont begrudge collingwood anything, I'm not putting forward that he has done anything wrong; I'm not putting forward any suggestion that he has been anything but loyal to Durham - but I am saying that he has done very well financially from Durham, IMHO, and thats fair enough.

But as I say if you are going to come out in the paper and make "loyalty" statements as Colly has done then you need to be sure that you are in a position where no one can throw any stones at you and from the lofty position as probably the clubs highest wage earner its fair to just ask Colly to stand back and ask what he would have done in say Rocky, Borthwick, Coughlin or Jennings position.
 
You clearly are if you are getting paid a fortune for staying put. What incentive is there to leave if you are being paid a fortune and are perhaps one of the best paid players on the county circuit? Who else would have him and pay him what he gets at Durham at this stage of his career? I would suggest probably no one.

As you say yourself, when he played for England it didnt matter really which club he was contracted to because he never played for them anyway, although as I remember it Colly got a share of the win bonus when DCCC won their county championships even though he never played a game; isnt that right? I'm sure that everyone contracted to the county champions gets some share of the pot.

I dont begrudge collingwood anything, I'm not putting forward that he has done anything wrong; I'm not putting forward any suggestion that he has been anything but loyal to Durham - but I am saying that he has done very well financially from Durham, IMHO, and thats fair enough.

But as I say if you are going to come out in the paper and make "loyalty" statements as Colly has done then you need to be sure that you are in a position where no one can throw any stones at you and from the lofty position as probably the clubs highest wage earner its fair to just ask Colly to stand back and ask what he would have done in say Rocky, Borthwick, Coughlin or Jennings position.
Since nobody knows his salary its difficult to say whether he is a top earner in county circuit or not but i would imagine the big payers like Surrey, Yorkshire and Hampshire would have easily paid him more than Durham. I suspect his loyalty is two-fold. he doesnt want to permanently leave the north east and he feels indebted to Durham for giving him his chance because he may not have got that just being a young lad from Shotley without Durham
 
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