Our view of Lee Johnson

Bristol City

Bristol City

Midfield
I understand there are a dozen threads on Johnson already but I've been asked about 3 dozen questions in the past 24 hours on him & I can't reply to every one of them nor can everyone see them (I've been asked the same questions half a dozen times).

I thought I'd add a collection of views from our forum so that you can get a, somewhat, balanced view of his past 5 years in management & to save having to repeat the same thing over and over.

On a personal level I like Lee Johnson, as a man not a manager. I would love to see you promoted alongside him.

I can't wish you luck today as you're playing direct compeitition with the Gas for a relegation spot, I'm sure you'd think the same if it was us & the Mags, but I wish you the best of luck for the rest of the season.

With that being said, here are a collection of views of our former manager, I'll start with some small quotes for those not bothered to read essays & finish with some longer posts.

PS. Put £10 on Jamie McAllister to come in as his assistant.





"Meh think he’d be as good an appointment for them as anyone else available to be honest.

Sunderland should be able to dominate teams at that level and if he gets them playing the way we did in 17/18 then sure they’ll be pleased.

Issue is no way will Sunderland fans have the patience that Lansdown did during his time here."

"Bloody hell, who do they think they'd get to take them over? Johnson achieved a few top half finishes with us, it'd be like us missing out on play offs a few more times, sacking off Holden and having a premier league manager who'd finished mid table a few times take us over and us pissing and moaning about it. "

"They've got one of our fans on there called 'Bristol City' and he's rubbished Johnson a few times.

I never thought Johnson would take us up and I would've got rid of him a lot sooner, but reality is he improved us year on year (until last season) whilst losing his best player pretty much every season.

He's at a much bigger side if he does get the job, and if he can get it right they could do back to backs."

"For me, Johnson gets a big club, and he gets the chance to earn his first play-off / promotion. I don’t care about whether Sunderland was a basket case, it’s down to him now and we will see where it gets him. I think it’s a no excuses appointment. One point off playoffs in 7th place with a game in hand, anything but playoffs is below par. 5 points off automatics. "

"Also, didn’t loads of people say Johnson should work under a DoF as he’s a good coach but needs guidance? Sounds like that’s what he’d have at Sunderland. I think he’d probably take them up."

"Can't see the hardcore support from Sunderland fans really taking well to the rubbish he comes out with. Our fanbase is tame compared to the fanatics from the North East"

"Yeah there's no doubting there were bad times under him but equally some very good ones and left the club in a far better position then he took it over."


"Massive step up for LJ in what is arguably a much bigger club than ourselves. Think he will do a great job for them tbh."

"Oh come on he did a far better job of that than any manager I’ve seen at Ashton Gate going back to Tinnion. (2003) "


"If he's working under/with somebody that'll be a nightmare scenario.


With WeeLee it's his way or the highway, no matter how correct or talented his critic might be.


Napoleon Complex, as with his father that's his signal weakness. You have been warned.


PS - don't fall for the BS or gimmicks. Drones and grass measuring are pointless if you can't implement the basics."


"If it hadn’t been for SL’s obsession that LJ will eventually get it right, he would have been sacked 18 months before he eventually was.


For me the football he served up for 75% of his time at City, was absolutely awful.


He has had three football league jobs, and has done nothing whatsoever, except presiding over record runs of defeats.


The only credit I can give him is for the League cup run, but because of injuries etc, the team basically picked itself. Once players were fit again, he got the tombola out, and we all know the rest!"

"He was a bullshitting fraud who benefited from SL's irrational desire to 'make it up' to GJ for having to sack him. The 'godfather' reference was very apt, and it will be interesting to see how he goes in a job where for the first time in his life he succeeds or fails on his own merit without the safety net of father or "godfather". Football is a simple game - and history has shown that the top successful managers like Jock Stein, Alex Ferguson, Bill Shankly , Brian Clough, and latterly Pochetino, Klopp etc would never have indulged themselves in such immature and narcissistic bullshit by bigging themselves up by trying to sound clever with talk of grass measuring, drones, red arrows, NHS, etc ."

" There's been a hell of a lot of rewriting of history when it comes to Lee Johnson on here.


The last season we played some pretty uninspiring stuff and he ultimately lost his job for failing in the target of getting us into the playoffs.


However at times we played some fantastic stuff too, 2017-18 being a particular highlight, and when he joined the club we were in a relegation fight having just been promoted.


Ultimately his overall time at City was one of progression until his final season.


He's a decent manager, not outstanding by any means, but don't let the eternally negative ones on here convince you he's a fraud or any of the other labels that would be thrown at him on a weekly basis.


A decent manager who has flaws, a tendancy to overthink being one of them. "
 
Last edited:


10,000 character limited...

Continued..


"I was by no means an LJ fan but I've consistently said this and I'll say it to you - LJ gave me the best away days of my life. No idea if it was a fluke or if it's reproducable at Sunderland, but once he had a team he produced well organised, efficient, commanding away wins all over the country and in the Championship.


I've no idea if it's a record for us but it's easily the best run away I've known and at the highest level I have ever seen us. If he gets Sunderland going around the country, with your support (post-COVID), it'll spark something. Our problem was as good as he was away, we were vague and boring at home and when most people saw it.


He spins a bit and he's his own biggest fan - some of his comments pre and post match come across as him narrating his own biography or writing his own profile for the Guardian - and his record developing players has some minor revisionism, though in the main it's true, he has coached and sold players in the £10-20m bracket.


Be prepared to know what David Brent soundbites to filter and don't have any pre-conceived agenda against him (he had a lot of this at the extremes here) and he will only try to see you right. I was lucky enough to have my birthday last time we played in Sunderland and had a brilliant day in the Wheatsheaf, class fans to a man. "

"Can’t really look at win percentages as it assumes everyone is playing with the same resources. And as Phileas said, it was decent anyway overall. What he achieved at Oldham, an absolute basket case of a club, with almost literally no money, was brilliant. To win more games there than you lose is impressive.


The hatred that Lee Johnson brings out of fans is bizarre. He might not have been perfect but if anyone ignores or downplays his strengths, then that is on them not Lee. The positive things he did are clear. Unfortunately he lost his head a bit I think and couldn’t see the wood for the trees.


Really hope he does well at Sunderland as he seems like a really good guy and it will mean a lot to him. "

" I can understand your point of view when you explained the reasoning behind it, history with Cotterill etc. To your credit you have been 100% consistent in your views on Johnson from his appointment.


Whilst I don't agree 100% with your views on Johnson, I think the majority of the criticisms you've made there are valid but in my view to a lesser degree and you've chosen not to credit Johnson for things that he probably does deserve props for. I think though that your post was partly extra harsh to wind Riaz up!


Given the range of views on Johnson, it's hard for there to be an accepted narrative.. if I was to have a stab at it though I get the impression most fans agree on the following:


  • He was fortunate to get the job in the first place
  • He was given lots of time, lots of money and lots of leeway given his personal history with the Lansdown family
  • His management speak is a bit irritating and often he over spoke allowing lots of things he's said to be taken out of context to be used as simplistic soundbites against him ("Europe in 5 years", "X amount of transfer windows", "measuring grass"). Regardless of the context of what he was saying, they'll only be remembered by many as the soundbite.
  • He was lucky to keep his job during the losing runs.
  • He struggled managing 'big name' players/tricky characters.
  • His 'busy bee' preferred style of midfielder didn't capture the imagination of supporters.
  • Lots of dud signings which indicated some sort of disconnect in the scouting/Ashton/Johnson's transfer dealings.
  • He had lots of his best players sold, many of which were irreplaceable.
  • He developed some great players and sold them on for big profit.
  • He helped cement us as a competitive Championship side.
  • The cup run was fantastic, Man United at home will be remembered for years to come.
  • We were very good in patches away from home.
  • At times, our general football was great. The Reid/Paterson combination in 17/18 before it fell apart.
  • He was a good man who can never be accused of not being committed and genuinely cares about the club. "
 
10,000 character limited...

Continued..

"Hi Sunderland fans,





Hope you're all keeping well. I've joined the board to attempt to give you a balanced view on Lee Johnson. I'm afraid I might find this hard though as I'm sure you find out on reading this post.





Lee Johnson was appointed following the sacking of Steve Cotterill. Cotts had just given us our best ever season, albeit it at league one level. We won the league at a canter amassing 99 points and just for good measure we won't the Mickey Mouse trophy. Regrettably things didn't fare so well in the Championship and at the first sign of trouble, he was booted out with us third from bottom, two points from safety with half the season gone. Our chairman, Steve Lansdown offered Cotts no backing whatsoever and was very quick to pull the trigger.





This brought about the appointment of Lee Johnson. Poached from Barnsley where he'd done quite well. They'd eventually get promoted off the back of his start to the season, although they had recently endured their record losing streak under LJ and so the reality is that the Barnsley fans weren't exactly massively upset to see him go.





Things changed dramatically when LJ was appointed. you may be aware of LJ's dad Gary. He was a legend of a manager for us and took us to the play off final in 07/08 with a squad that performed well above the level of the players contained within it (remember this point). It was during this time that Steve Lansdown (owner) struck up a lasting friendship with the Johnson family - alarm bells ringing at all?





A closed cheque book for Steve Cotterill suddenly opened wide and players that Cotts hadn't been allowed to sign (Lee Tomlin - 20k wages, our highest earner being on 13k) were suddenly given the green light. On the back of these signings, including your own (I think) Adam Matthews, Tomlin and Peter Odemwinge, Lee Johnson guided us to safety.





In the coming seasons we'd see signings authorised left, right and centre. For millions and millions of pounds. Money was thrown about like we've never seen before - some (including me) would say because of Lansdown's fondness for Johnson. And we established ourselves as a team that would flatter to deceive. It cannot be ignore that admit it all Lee Johnson stumbled across a formula to have us playing scintillating football and we were neck and neck with Wolves up until Christmas at the top of the league, until we'll crumbled away in extremely poor fashion that saw us go on a remarkable streak of results that looked like that welsh train station with the really long name, these runs included a record 8/9 L's in a row and another similar run. And a number of fans took to christening him streaky Johnson as he'd manage to paper over the cracks (my opinion) with a couple of wins and a draw thereafter.





Signing wise, Johnson signed a lot of dross. He signed foreigners that played next to no minutes, including the NZ goalkeeper who had arguably the worst performance any player has ever had for Bristol City ever, or maybe even any football team ever. There were a few like this. Players he talk up, pay a lot and then not play.





Things weren't all bad on the transfer front though. He'd sign Adam Webster for 4.5m from Ipswich and sell him to Brighton for up to 26m and he signed Josh Brownhill for a pittance and sell him to Burnley for 7m (although this was pretty obviously always going to happen given his obvious talent).





Johnson also played a pretty uninspiring midfielder (who I'd have happily let go on a free) up top. Bobby Reid was in his last chance saloon at Bristol City when an injury crisis saw Johnson play him up front in a very successful pre season. We'd go onto sell him to Cardiff for 10m and he now remarkably pays his trade with Fulham in the Prem. Johnson can take full credit for that.





He's also sell Johnathon Kodjia (15m to Villa), Aden Flint (7m - i forget whether to Cardiff or Boro) and Joe Bryan (6m Fulham), and whereas pro LJers would have you believe this was LJ's work, they were already at City (and had performed well) and so I'd suggest his credit in the transfers is extremely limited.





Post that defeat to Wolves, our football became awful. The worst we've ever seen at Bristol City. At the opposite end of the spectrum to what we'd seen earlier that season - hence why i used the phrase 'stumbled across a formula' earlier in this write up, it genuinely wasn't me being disingenuous. We were crap and Ashton Gate became anything but a fortress. We were weak, football was awful and more and more often fans would be calling for his head. But his good family friend Steve Lansdown stuck with him. Don't get me wrong, it wasn't all bad, away from home we became masters of nicking a 0-1 win on the road, but this would (in my opinion) paper over the cracks of the dour home form.





We'd regularly enjoy a decent enough start to the season and then fade away dramatically to 8-12th spot and given the tens of millions of outgoings and then now bulging wage structure, Johnson left us with a bloated squad with players in it that we knew were quality (Tamas Kalas - 2 promotions to prom), but somehow they managed to look like sunday league players.





Don't get me started on playing players out of position, we'd see players shoehorned into the starting line up at the expense of someone who genuinely would play in the position that he needed to fill. Then there was the 'Johnson Tombola' - if you want a steady and consistent line up then I'm afraid you've come to the wrong place. Our star left winger - who'd finish last season at the top of the assist making charts, couldn't get a run of games in the team no matter how well he played - can you imagine his stats if he'd got a fair crack?





Then there's the credit taking. If we won "They players stuck to my plan brilliantly", if we lost he'd single players out. I seem to recall a game where we lost heavily. He brought on a sub at half time (or there abouts) with us 2 or 3 down, the proceeded to blame him when we lost 4-0. Our ability to hold a lead became nothing short of awful - do you recall when we were 3-0 up against you at half time and drew 3-3? Awful. Blaming players is something Johnson does equally as well as taking credit himself. And he's good at excuses, blaming Villa beating us on the positioning of the away fans and excuses too... there was a time when we got completely trounced by Brentford nd he said something like "After their third goal, we more than matched them" - we lost 3-0. You getting the picture yet?





Now comes my favourite point about Lee Johnson. The Johnsonisms. He is completely full of shit. As i understand it, there was quite a David Brent type character on STID? I never got far enough into the series to meet him, but LJ is more than a match for him. It got to a point where i couldn't listen to him. Win lose or draw I couldn't stand hearing what he had to say. It was just an embarrassment - I hope you'll learn exactly what it is that i'm referring to - but let just say you'd be well placed to start a thread on "Johnsonisms" on your forum and it'll be well populated very quickly.





I'm afraid I can't bring you much joyful news about your impending appointment of Lee Johnson. There were many points during his tenure where i'd have taken anyone to replace him - literally anyone - the football was that bad.





He does silly things, like measure the length of the grass, spend a shift in A&E, go to an army training camp, spend a night in the kitchen of a Michelin starred restaurant and his latest boast is to have sat down with someone who's amassed 9,000 hours of army interrogation - this is the sort of bullshit that might impress the newspapers, but in reality when he's playing a LB at CD, or a winger in CM don't really matter. He's calls them the 1%'s, but the 90%'s that matter, he couldn't seem to master.





So good luck Sunderland. I'm afraid to say you're going to need it. When you hear sky Sports refer to Bristol City playing a fast attacking expansive brand of football, the reality is that they're basing it on 4 months out of 5 years. The rest was rubbish. There came a point they'd say it every time we where on TV.





I hope that A Bristol City fan can come on here an give a good counter argument. As you can tell from above I'm absolutely no LJ fan, and I might have undersold some of his strengths (thinking about the opponent strengths rather than our own is another one). There are City fans who like him, but they tend to be the ones who deliberately ignore that he only got the job because the owner is essentially his god father and backed him with more finances that we've ever seen before.





Good luck lads and lasses. I fear you'll need it. Because at Sunderland he'll be without his biggest strength - Steve Lansdown.





Fordy (@Fordy62)"

" I get that you're mostly using me as an example, but I am far less pro-LJ than Fordy is anti-LJ.


I've said the following multiple times over the past 4 years, but while I respect @Fordy62, I think he is incredibly OTT with his criticisms.


There is plenty of valid criticism that can be aimed at Johnson, but my view is that his overall time here was marginally more positive than negative.


However, I was/am more vociferous with my defense of LJ than I actually feel, because I will argue against what I see as OTT criticisms and try to counter those points.
 
Bristol City said:
I understand there are a dozen threads on Johnson already but I've been asked about 3 dozen questions in the past 24 hours on him & I can't reply to every one of them nor can everyone see them (I've been asked the same questions half a dozen times).

I thought I'd add a collection of views from our forum so that you can get a, somewhat, balanced view of his past 5 years in management & to save having to repeat the same thing over and over.

On a personal level I like Lee Johnson, as a man not a manager. I would love to see you promoted alongside him.

I can't wish you luck today as you're playing direct compeitition with the Gas for a relegation spot, I'm sure you'd think the same if it was us & the Mags, but I wish you the best of luck for the rest of the season.

With that being said, here are a collection of views of our former manager, I'll start with some small quotes for those not bothered to read essays & finish with some longer posts.

PS. Put £10 on Jamie McAllister to come in as his assistant.





"Meh think he’d be as good an appointment for them as anyone else available to be honest.

Sunderland should be able to dominate teams at that level and if he gets them playing the way we did in 17/18 then sure they’ll be pleased.

Issue is no way will Sunderland fans have the patience that Lansdown did during his time here."

"Bloody hell, who do they think they'd get to take them over? Johnson achieved a few top half finishes with us, it'd be like us missing out on play offs a few more times, sacking off Holden and having a premier league manager who'd finished mid table a few times take us over and us pissing and moaning about it. "

"They've got one of our fans on there called 'Bristol City' and he's rubbished Johnson a few times.

I never thought Johnson would take us up and I would've got rid of him a lot sooner, but reality is he improved us year on year (until last season) whilst losing his best player pretty much every season.

He's at a much bigger side if he does get the job, and if he can get it right they could do back to backs."

"For me, Johnson gets a big club, and he gets the chance to earn his first play-off / promotion. I don’t care about whether Sunderland was a basket case, it’s down to him now and we will see where it gets him. I think it’s a no excuses appointment. One point off playoffs in 7th place with a game in hand, anything but playoffs is below par. 5 points off automatics. "

"Also, didn’t loads of people say Johnson should work under a DoF as he’s a good coach but needs guidance? Sounds like that’s what he’d have at Sunderland. I think he’d probably take them up."

"Can't see the hardcore support from Sunderland fans really taking well to the rubbish he comes out with. Our fanbase is tame compared to the fanatics from the North East"

"Yeah there's no doubting there were bad times under him but equally some very good ones and left the club in a far better position then he took it over."


"Massive step up for LJ in what is arguably a much bigger club than ourselves. Think he will do a great job for them tbh."

"Oh come on he did a far better job of that than any manager I’ve seen at Ashton Gate going back to Tinnion. (2003) "


"If he's working under/with somebody that'll be a nightmare scenario.


With WeeLee it's his way or the highway, no matter how correct or talented his critic might be.


Napoleon Complex, as with his father that's his signal weakness. You have been warned.


PS - don't fall for the BS or gimmicks. Drones and grass measuring are pointless if you can't implement the basics."


"If it hadn’t been for SL’s obsession that LJ will eventually get it right, he would have been sacked 18 months before he eventually was.


For me the football he served up for 75% of his time at City, was absolutely awful.


He has had three football league jobs, and has done nothing whatsoever, except presiding over record runs of defeats.


The only credit I can give him is for the League cup run, but because of injuries etc, the team basically picked itself. Once players were fit again, he got the tombola out, and we all know the rest!"

"He was a bullshitting fraud who benefited from SL's irrational desire to 'make it up' to GJ for having to sack him. The 'godfather' reference was very apt, and it will be interesting to see how he goes in a job where for the first time in his life he succeeds or fails on his own merit without the safety net of father or "godfather". Football is a simple game - and history has shown that the top successful managers like Jock Stein, Alex Ferguson, Bill Shankly , Brian Clough, and latterly Pochetino, Klopp etc would never have indulged themselves in such immature and narcissistic bullshit by bigging themselves up by trying to sound clever with talk of grass measuring, drones, red arrows, NHS, etc ."

" There's been a hell of a lot of rewriting of history when it comes to Lee Johnson on here.


The last season we played some pretty uninspiring stuff and he ultimately lost his job for failing in the target of getting us into the playoffs.


However at times we played some fantastic stuff too, 2017-18 being a particular highlight, and when he joined the club we were in a relegation fight having just been promoted.


Ultimately his overall time at City was one of progression until his final season.


He's a decent manager, not outstanding by any means, but don't let the eternally negative ones on here convince you he's a fraud or any of the other labels that would be thrown at him on a weekly basis.


A decent manager who has flaws, a tendancy to overthink being one of them. "
Click to expand...
Kudos to you for all of the cutting and pasting, you should be a professional wall paperer.
 
Bristol City said:
I understand there are a dozen threads on Johnson already but I've been asked about 3 dozen questions in the past 24 hours on him & I can't reply to every one of them nor can everyone see them (I've been asked the same questions half a dozen times).

I thought I'd add a collection of views from our forum so that you can get a, somewhat, balanced view of his past 5 years in management & to save having to repeat the same thing over and over.

On a personal level I like Lee Johnson, as a man not a manager. I would love to see you promoted alongside him.

I can't wish you luck today as you're playing direct compeitition with the Gas for a relegation spot, I'm sure you'd think the same if it was us & the Mags, but I wish you the best of luck for the rest of the season.

With that being said, here are a collection of views of our former manager, I'll start with some small quotes for those not bothered to read essays & finish with some longer posts.

PS. Put £10 on Jamie McAllister to come in as his assistant.





"Meh think he’d be as good an appointment for them as anyone else available to be honest.

Sunderland should be able to dominate teams at that level and if he gets them playing the way we did in 17/18 then sure they’ll be pleased.

Issue is no way will Sunderland fans have the patience that Lansdown did during his time here."

"Bloody hell, who do they think they'd get to take them over? Johnson achieved a few top half finishes with us, it'd be like us missing out on play offs a few more times, sacking off Holden and having a premier league manager who'd finished mid table a few times take us over and us pissing and moaning about it. "

"They've got one of our fans on there called 'Bristol City' and he's rubbished Johnson a few times.

I never thought Johnson would take us up and I would've got rid of him a lot sooner, but reality is he improved us year on year (until last season) whilst losing his best player pretty much every season.

He's at a much bigger side if he does get the job, and if he can get it right they could do back to backs."

"For me, Johnson gets a big club, and he gets the chance to earn his first play-off / promotion. I don’t care about whether Sunderland was a basket case, it’s down to him now and we will see where it gets him. I think it’s a no excuses appointment. One point off playoffs in 7th place with a game in hand, anything but playoffs is below par. 5 points off automatics. "

"Also, didn’t loads of people say Johnson should work under a DoF as he’s a good coach but needs guidance? Sounds like that’s what he’d have at Sunderland. I think he’d probably take them up."

"Can't see the hardcore support from Sunderland fans really taking well to the rubbish he comes out with. Our fanbase is tame compared to the fanatics from the North East"

"Yeah there's no doubting there were bad times under him but equally some very good ones and left the club in a far better position then he took it over."


"Massive step up for LJ in what is arguably a much bigger club than ourselves. Think he will do a great job for them tbh."

"Oh come on he did a far better job of that than any manager I’ve seen at Ashton Gate going back to Tinnion. (2003) "


"If he's working under/with somebody that'll be a nightmare scenario.


With WeeLee it's his way or the highway, no matter how correct or talented his critic might be.


Napoleon Complex, as with his father that's his signal weakness. You have been warned.


PS - don't fall for the BS or gimmicks. Drones and grass measuring are pointless if you can't implement the basics."


"If it hadn’t been for SL’s obsession that LJ will eventually get it right, he would have been sacked 18 months before he eventually was.


For me the football he served up for 75% of his time at City, was absolutely awful.


He has had three football league jobs, and has done nothing whatsoever, except presiding over record runs of defeats.


The only credit I can give him is for the League cup run, but because of injuries etc, the team basically picked itself. Once players were fit again, he got the tombola out, and we all know the rest!"

"He was a bullshitting fraud who benefited from SL's irrational desire to 'make it up' to GJ for having to sack him. The 'godfather' reference was very apt, and it will be interesting to see how he goes in a job where for the first time in his life he succeeds or fails on his own merit without the safety net of father or "godfather". Football is a simple game - and history has shown that the top successful managers like Jock Stein, Alex Ferguson, Bill Shankly , Brian Clough, and latterly Pochetino, Klopp etc would never have indulged themselves in such immature and narcissistic bullshit by bigging themselves up by trying to sound clever with talk of grass measuring, drones, red arrows, NHS, etc ."

" There's been a hell of a lot of rewriting of history when it comes to Lee Johnson on here.


The last season we played some pretty uninspiring stuff and he ultimately lost his job for failing in the target of getting us into the playoffs.


However at times we played some fantastic stuff too, 2017-18 being a particular highlight, and when he joined the club we were in a relegation fight having just been promoted.


Ultimately his overall time at City was one of progression until his final season.


He's a decent manager, not outstanding by any means, but don't let the eternally negative ones on here convince you he's a fraud or any of the other labels that would be thrown at him on a weekly basis.


A decent manager who has flaws, a tendancy to overthink being one of them. "
Click to expand...
Shame you couldn't have condensed it more.
Wansbeck Viking said:
Didn’t read.

Is he good or not?
Click to expand...
Me either.
Can someone condense it?
Too lazy and can't be arsed to read all of that
 

Back
Top