Not Guilty of Murder -Kieran Williams Trial Verdict

[luvulongtime]

Hard to prove you knew an attack was an attempt to murder mind. In this case are they both not saying they knew nothing about it and it was all the others doing?

aka, a cut throat defence

 

[dangermows]

Problem is that nowadays you'll get more and more people sitting on juries who have the same mindset as those they are sitting in judgement of.

The type who'll think the victim 'deserved it' because he had nicked something from them or who was operating on 'their turf'.

Could be. Thing is, on the face of it, it appears its either murder or not. Manslaughter charge is puzzling. Have they decided despite the repeated stabbings it was just an attack that resulted in an accidental death?

 

[Pete the Pirate]

Could be. Thing is, on the face of it, it appears its either murder or not. Manslaughter charge is puzzling. Have they decided despite the repeated stabbings it was just an attack that resulted in an accidental death?

Including in places such as the neck.

 

[dangermows]

You don't have to. You have to prove an attack was premeditated with malice aforethought. Hence why you see people in prison for throwing one punch.

Then have they decided it wasn't premeditated? Meaning they don't believe it was planned and dont think a grave was gug prior.

There has to reasons. It can't just be.

Including in places such as the neck.

He was rolling about and got struck in the neck by accident?

Fuck knows.

 

[fulwellfred]

Problem is that nowadays you'll get more and more people sitting on juries who have the same mindset as those they are sitting in judgement of.

The type who'll think the victim 'deserved it' because he had nicked something from them or who was operating on 'their turf'.

About 15 year ago I got chosen for jury service at Durham. Never got a case just sat with potential jurors for the week watching TV and reading the newspapers in a room at the court. Was a bit of a skive really.

What surprised me was how many professions, and exemptions there are to get out of doing it.

Most of the people were like me young call centre workers enjoying time out of work, a few housewives and a few unemployed.

There wasn't any professionals like teachers, doctors, nurses, etc

 

[DBStar]

Then have they decided it wasn't premeditated? Meaning they don't believe it was planned and dont think a grave was gug prior.

Possibly that. Though meaning to hurt someone and accidentally killing them is still often murder even when the attack itself was minimal. The judge also mentioned loose ends in the versions of events.

 

[pavarotti1980]

You don't have to. You have to prove an attack was premeditated with malice aforethought. Hence why you see people in prison for throwing one punch.

One punch attacks will very rarely see a conviction for murder though.

 

[DBStar]

One punch attacks will very rarely see a conviction for murder though.

Of course. But I was just pointing out it doesn't have to be a well detailed plan with a high level of violence.

 

[lucky]

Possibly that. Though meaning to hurt someone and accidentally killing them is still often murder even when the attack itself was minimal. The judge also mentioned loose ends in the versions of events.

Well surely that's the point of a trial to get to the bottom of the loose ends?

 

[pavarotti1980]

Of course. But I was just pointing out it doesn't have to be a well detailed plan with a high level of violence.

But they have to be able to prove mens rea for murder.

 

[Mercia Blackcat]

You don't have to. You have to prove an attack was premeditated with malice aforethought. Hence why you see people in prison for throwing one punch.

If an attack was likely to result in death then that is murder whether you intended to kill or not.

 

[fulwellfred]

Nope,.fairly sure that even if you're just there observing but not participating in a murder you could be charged with murder.

This was the summing up where the prosecution mentioned joint enterprise

"This a classic joint enterprise as, where two connected people shared the common purpose of killing Kieran and where both was influenced and encouraged by what the other one did and said.

“The evidence shows both were involved by at least April 16, last year.”

Mr Lamb said they made “carefully arranged plans” to lure the victim to the, “secluded and remote location”, where the assault was, “violently executed.”

He added that the pair were, “literally hand in glove” with each other and both took part.

“It’s clear both participated in a joint enterprise, a savage and brutal attack which ended with young Kieran being killed"

 

[Mercia Blackcat]

Murder is committed when a person of sound mind unlawfully kills another person and they have the intention to kill or to cause grievous bodily harm. A number of complete defences to murder exist, including self-defence, as well as partial defences, including diminished responsibility and loss of control.

Murder & Manslaughter – BCL Solicitors LLP | Lawyers London

Murder and manslaughter fall within the wider definition of homicide. Murder is committed when a person of sound mind unlawfully kills another person and they have the intention to kill or to cause grievous bodily harm. A number of complete defences to murder exist, including self-defence, as...

www.bcl.com

 

[CheersMarra84]

How’s this not classed as a premeditated murder? Disgusting.

 

[pavarotti1980]

Murder is committed when a person of sound mind unlawfully kills another person and they have the intention to kill or to cause grievous bodily harm. A number of complete defences to murder exist, including self-defence, as well as partial defences, including diminished responsibility and loss of control.

Murder & Manslaughter – BCL Solicitors LLP | Lawyers London

Murder and manslaughter fall within the wider definition of homicide. Murder is committed when a person of sound mind unlawfully kills another person and they have the intention to kill or to cause grievous bodily harm. A number of complete defences to murder exist, including self-defence, as...

www.bcl.com

Were the prosecution able to demonstrate and prove this beyond reasonable doubt?

 

[Mercia Blackcat]

Were the prosecution able to demonstrate and prove this beyond reasonable doubt?

Well that is the question, were they able to prove that they intended to cause grievous bodily harm and that had resulted in death as a consequence.

Stabbing someone twenty times would establish that in my opinion but I was not on the jury.

 

[pavarotti1980]

Well that is the question, were they able to prove that they intended to cause grievous bodily harm that resulted in death.

Stabbing someone twenty times would establish that in my opinion but I was not on the jury.

But without the actual evidence its all just guesswork as to what was presented as verifiable evidence

 

[Thrall]

Systems fucked, country’s fucked.
How is 20 stab wounds not murder?

I’ve always been against that saying, but this last year has got me well onboard. The country is massively on the decline in law and economics.

 

[DBStar]

If an attack was likely to result in death then that is murder whether you intended to kill or not.

I've been arguing that.

Well surely that's the point of a trial to get to the bottom of the loose ends?

But they can't always.

 

[Bob Fleming]

It's utterly bewildering how they can't have them for murder but no longer surprising. There are so many technicalities in proving it and intent to kill. Hear of this all too often.

Horrible evil little scrotes.