Newcastle thread Oct and Nov 2020

[Freddie the Greek]

They've carried their luck for years man

How?

 

[The Fish]

In reality however it's not really any different to how you performed under Benitez.

In reality, it is different. Won't bore you with 7 paragraphs proving it is different, but by almost every metric we're worse under Bruce. Benitez might have been pragmatic, negative, but at least there was a plan. If you're old enough to remember Bruce's time at Sunderland the same criticisms he faced then are true today; he's got no tactical nous.

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9 years ago;

Always rather amorphous, if not downright scrappy, Sunderland's high-tempo style lacked creativity, not to mention control, in central midfield. Unable to dictate play, the team frequently failed to press home early advantages.

Unashamedly old school, Bruce believed that motivation was the key to management but the influx of overseas coaches has raised the Premier League's technical bar and despite his relative youth, he has begun to look suspiciously like a man whose era has passed.

It certainly did not play well with Sunderland fans when the crowd were blamed for harbouring overly "great expectations"

Plus ca change

 

[Binxy]

In reality, it is different. Won't bore you with 7 paragraphs proving it is different, but by almost every metric we're worse under Bruce. Benitez might have been pragmatic, negative, but at least there was a plan. If you're old enough to remember Bruce's time at Sunderland the same criticisms he faced then are true today; he's got no tactical nous.

Bruce has done better in the cups so you're not worse by every metric.

 

[Super Ted]

In reality, it is different. Won't bore you with 7 paragraphs proving it is different, but by almost every metric we're worse under Bruce. Benitez might have been pragmatic, negative, but at least there was a plan. If you're old enough to remember Bruce's time at Sunderland the same criticisms he faced then are true today; he's got no tactical nous.

What was the plan? 11 men behind the ball and hope Rondon or Perez do something? It seems to me that it's exactly the same apart from swapping them two for Saint Maxim and Wilson.

I agree you seemed to be a little bit more compact under Benitez but that's about it, both styles of play are shite.

On a results basis they are pretty much exactly the same.

 

[The Fish]

Bruce has done better in the cups so you're not worse by every metric.

That's why I said "almost every metric".

What was the plan? 11 men behind the ball and hope Rondon or Perez do something? It seems to me that it's exactly the same apart from swapping them two for Saint Maxim and Wilson.

I agree you seemed to be a little bit more compact under Benitez but that's about it, both styles of play are shite.

On a results basis they are pretty much exactly the same.

Against the better sides the plan was to reduce the game to spells of 5-10 minutes at the beginning and end of each half, try to counter when we could. Stay compact and controlled, press whenever the opposition got within 30-35yds of goal. Deny goal scoring opportunities by forcing attacking players into congested centre.

Against lesser opposition we played more expansively, but still with one eye on defending. Then we'd play further up the pitch, with Perez harrying and harassing their CBs, CMs to force them to go long or make a mistake. When Almiron was added we were much easier on the eye.

Under Bruce we play deep, deeper than even Benitez's sides. We don't pressure the opposition, or if we do it's headless chicken stuff. Last season the plan was 'give it to ASM'.

 

[Binxy]

That's why I said "almost every metric".

Against the better sides the plan was to reduce the game to spells of 5-10 minutes at the beginning and end of each half, try to counter when we could. Stay compact and controlled, press whenever the opposition got within 30-35yds of goal. Deny goal scoring opportunities by forcing attacking players into congested centre.

Against lesser opposition we played more expansively, but still with one eye on defending. Then we'd play further up the pitch, with Perez harrying and harassing their CBs, CMs to force them to go long or make a mistake. When Almiron was added we were much easier on the eye.

Under Bruce we play deep, deeper than even Benitez's sides. We don't pressure the opposition, or if we do it's headless chicken stuff. Last season the plan was 'give it to ASM'.

You've just made all that shite up man.

"Press whenever the opposition got within 30- 35 yards of the goal. Deny goalscoring opportunities"

"Against lesser opposition play more expansivly"

Fuck me you've just revealed what every manager at every level have done since football was invented.

 

[Qwerty]

Hopefully they get to the final, unable to attend the new Wembley for the first time, lose, and miss out on the whole experience like it never even happened

You hope fans aren't attending games in February. Do you realise that means our league probably won't get finished and we'll be in this league yet another year.

 

[The Fish]

You've just made all that shite up man.

"Press whenever the opposition got within 30- 35 yards of the goal. Deny goalscoring opportunities"

"Against lesser opposition play more expansivly"

Fuck me you've just revealed what every manager at every level have done since football was invented.

I haven't, and it's not just me who described Benitez' style with NUFC like that.

Also, not every manager plays that way. Biesla gets his team to press high up the pitch, not just when they get 30yd from their goal. From him you get variations from Guardiola, Klopp, Nagelsman, each variation sufficiently different to the others to be significant. Other's prefer to drop back into their defensive shape immediately, not pressing until the ball gets into a certain area.

By cropping the full quote you've changed the meaning of the sentence. I said played 'more expansively while still keeping one eye on defending'. So even when we were against sides significantly weaker than us (in the Champ) we still set up with a focus on defending. We weren't going gung-ho against Burton.

 

[safctommie]

That's why I said "almost every metric".

Against the better sides the plan was to reduce the game to spells of 5-10 minutes at the beginning and end of each half, try to counter when we could. Stay compact and controlled, press whenever the opposition got within 30-35yds of goal. Deny goal scoring opportunities by forcing attacking players into congested centre.

Against lesser opposition we played more expansively, but still with one eye on defending. Then we'd play further up the pitch, with Perez harrying and harassing their CBs, CMs to force them to go long or make a mistake. When Almiron was added we were much easier on the eye.

Under Bruce we play deep, deeper than even Benitez's sides. We don't pressure the opposition, or if we do it's headless chicken stuff. Last season the plan was 'give it to ASM'.

Isnt Almirron playing in a more deeper role this season?

 

[The Fish]

Isnt Almirron playing in a more deeper role this season?

Bruce has only started him once in the league, against Spurs on the right wing. Even then most of his touches came in our half. He played further up the pitch under the previous manager.

Although in the cups, Bruce has pushed him into a support striker/attacking midfield role. but again, most of his touches come in our own half, because the whole team is so deep and the ball isn't sticking up front.

 

[Sabre Mag]

It’s ironic how we are called lucky yet haven’t won a domestic trophy since 1955. Would love to know what being unlucky would look like!

 

[Binxy]

It’s ironic how we are called lucky yet haven’t won a domestic trophy since 1955. Would love to know what being unlucky would look like!

Depends what we're classing as lucky really.
You're lucky you have an owner like Ashley who as you a steady Prem team.
On the other hand.

 

[safctommie]

Depends what we're classing as lucky really.
You're lucky you have an owner like Ashley who as you a steady Prem team.
On the other hand.

Good one

 

[The Fish]

Depends what we're classing as lucky really.
You're lucky you have an owner like Ashley who as you a steady Prem team.
On the other hand.

"Steady Prem team" = relegated twice in 13 seasons.

 

[Binxy]

"Steady Prem team" = relegated twice in 13 seasons.

Man Utd
Liverpool
Chelsea
Arsenal
Spurs
Everton

The only teams to not be relegated from the Prem. So by your logic those six are the only steady Prem teams in the country then.

 

[Richie K]

That year we beat Everton in the 3rd round.

The following year required us to beat 3 premier league teams on the road to Wembley.

are you trying to make it sound like Everton were a great team back then?

Check out their team:

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Here is the route to the final:

Round 3 - Everton
Round 4 - Stevenage
Round 5 - Tranmere
Round 6 - Barnsley
Semi - Sheff utd

What was the run like in 74? , can't be bothered to check it out but will stand corrected if it was as tough as our 73 run (Man city, Arsenal etc).

 

[The Fish]

Man Utd
Liverpool
Chelsea
Arsenal
Spurs
Everton

The only teams to not be relegated from the Prem. So by your logic those six are the only steady Prem teams in the country then.

Oooh, nearly tripped me up there by carefully misrepresenting what I said. No, a team that's been relegated twice in 7 top flight seasons is not a steady prem team. Man City are now a steady Prem team (at least), Leicester are, Southampton are, Palace are, West Ham.

 

[Binxy]

Oooh, nearly tripped me up there by carefully misrepresenting what I said. No, a team that's been relegated twice in 7 top flight seasons is not a steady prem team. Man City are now a steady Prem team (at least), Leicester are, Southampton are, Palace are, West Ham.

2 in 13 seasons

 

[horselover]

Examples?

Fuck off

 

[The Fish]

2 in 13 seasons

Twice in 7 top flight seasons is accurate and reflects that we're not a steady Prem team. 2 in 13 seasons could be 11 seasons between relegations and that would be a steady Prem team.