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Michael Vaughan


rentaghost said:
Man who has history for blatant racist comments / tweets is devastated and suicidal about being accused of saying 'you lot' to some Asian players.
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No proof he said it mind, in fact evidence suggested he didn’t

His tweets were ridiculous mind

I think Rafiq is a troublemaker meself, just wanted to bring down Yorkshire and I like to think I’m not someone who is on that side of the argument usually too.
Maybe Vaughan can look back and think how he talked about Trott when he was going through mental health issues, now that was disgusting
 
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MustardAndOnions said:
No proof he said it mind, in fact evidence suggested he didn’t

His tweets were ridiculous mind

I think Rafiq is a troublemaker meself, just wanted to bring down Yorkshire and I like to think I’m not someone who is on that side of the argument usually too.
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We will never know I suppose. Its hardly a stretch to expect that someone who has said / tweeted the stuff he has in the past to have said 'you lot'. I'm not trivializing it but I wouldn't even expect it was something Vaughan himself would remember saying it. How he can deny it with his last breath giving what he has said historically is difficult for me to correlate. I would expect if his tweets had been verbal comments he would be denying those with the same passion.
 
rentaghost said:
We will never know I suppose. Its hardly a stretch to expect that someone who has said / tweeted the stuff he has in the past to have said 'you lot'. I'm not trivializing it but I wouldn't even expect it was something Vaughan himself would remember saying it. How he can deny it with his last breath giving what he has said historically is difficult for me to correlate. I would expect if his tweets had been verbal comments he would be denying those with the same passion.
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Maybe but I just thought he produced decent evidence to suggest he didn’t say it, including witnesses. I’m not really defending Vaughan as I am not a big fan. I just thought it was good he turned up and defended himself, and I thought his lawyers immediately showed how flimsy some of the claims by Rafiq were when tested under any sort of questioning

That’s the point really there was a proper investigation by law firms into all the allegations, and the evidence was scrutinized by a panel of leading British Asians. But as Rafiq didn’t get the outcome he wanted he went to the press, then was granted an MPs committee where he made all sorts of allegations again which were just taken as fact, and no scrutiny.

My view may sound slightly controversial but it’s not in my opinion, Athers in the times has wrote similar about the process, I thought the whole thing was pretty disgracefully handled and ended up with Lord Patel nearly bankrupting Yorkshire.
 
MustardAndOnions said:
Maybe but I just thought he produced decent evidence to suggest he didn’t say it, including witnesses. I’m not really defending Vaughan as I am not a big fan. I just thought it was good he turned up and defended himself, and I thought his lawyers immediately showed how flimsy some of the claims by Rafiq were when tested under any sort of questioning

That’s the point really there was a proper investigation by law firms into all the allegations, and the evidence was scrutinized by a panel of leading British Asians. But as Rafiq didn’t get the outcome he wanted he went to the press, then was granted an MPs committee where he made all sorts of allegations again which were just taken as fact, and no scrutiny.

My view may sound slightly controversial but it’s not in my opinion, Athers in the times has wrote similar about the process, I thought the whole thing was pretty disgracefully handled and ended up with Lord Patel nearly bankrupting Yorkshire.
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No its not controversial - its a fair enough opinion to have.
 
MustardAndOnions said:
No proof he said it mind, in fact evidence suggested he didn’t

His tweets were ridiculous mind

I think Rafiq is a troublemaker meself, just wanted to bring down Yorkshire and I like to think I’m not someone who is on that side of the argument usually too.
Maybe Vaughan can look back and think how he talked about Trott when he was going through mental health issues, now that was disgusting
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Didnt Adil Rashid and Rana Naved-ul-Hasan both came out and said he did?

Either way Vaughan comes across as a bit of dick a lot of the time
 
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leecoo said:
Didnt Adil Rashid and Rana Naved-ul-Hasan both came out and said he did?

Either way Vaughan comes across as a bit of dick a lot of the time
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I think so yes. There was talk that Adil had been pressurised into agreeing with Rafiq but he denied this. Rashid said he didn't necessarily see the comments as racist more as bad humour but he did confirm the words were said.
 
rentaghost said:
We will never know I suppose. Its hardly a stretch to expect that someone who has said / tweeted the stuff he has in the past to have said 'you lot'. I'm not trivializing it but I wouldn't even expect it was something Vaughan himself would remember saying it. How he can deny it with his last breath giving what he has said historically is difficult for me to correlate. I would expect if his tweets had been verbal comments he would be denying those with the same passion.
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What has he tweeted in past that was so terrible?
Not trying to be funny I generally don’t know, I’ve always quite liked the bloke to be honest.
MustardAndOnions said:
Maybe but I just thought he produced decent evidence to suggest he didn’t say it, including witnesses. I’m not really defending Vaughan as I am not a big fan. I just thought it was good he turned up and defended himself, and I thought his lawyers immediately showed how flimsy some of the claims by Rafiq were when tested under any sort of questioning

That’s the point really there was a proper investigation by law firms into all the allegations, and the evidence was scrutinized by a panel of leading British Asians. But as Rafiq didn’t get the outcome he wanted he went to the press, then was granted an MPs committee where he made all sorts of allegations again which were just taken as fact, and no scrutiny.

My view may sound slightly controversial but it’s not in my opinion, Athers in the times has wrote similar about the process, I thought the whole thing was pretty disgracefully handled and ended up with Lord Patel nearly bankrupting Yorkshire.
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Yet the public opinion seems to be ‘poor Rafiq the victim’ whilst the people he accused without any evidence to substantiate are now persona non grata.
 
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Ducktales said:
What has he tweeted in past that was so terrible?
Not trying to be funny I generally don’t know, I’ve always quite liked the bloke to be honest.

Yet the public opinion seems to be ‘poor Rafiq the victim’ whilst the people he accused without any evidence to substantiate are now persona non grata.
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He was suggesting Moeen should go around asking random young British Muslims if they are terrorists to make society safer. It sort of gives the 'they are all the same' message in the same way the alleged 'you lot' one did. Aside from racism there was the stuff about Jonathan Trotts mental health which was awfully ignorant. When he's switched ion and not trying to be controversial he's a good cricket commentator but i do think he's a bellend.
 
Ducktales said:
What has he tweeted in past that was so terrible?
Not trying to be funny I generally don’t know, I’ve always quite liked the bloke to be honest.

Yet the public opinion seems to be ‘poor Rafiq the victim’ whilst the people he accused without any evidence to substantiate are now persona non grata.
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Its a tricky balance, George Dobell has not come out of this well, he has been driving the Scotland thing

Where the bloke has been fully cleared yet they will not publicly admit it
rentaghost said:
He was suggesting Moeen should go around asking random young British Muslims if they are terrorists to make society safer. It sort of gives the 'they are all the same' message in the same way the alleged 'you lot' one did. Aside from racism there was the stuff about Jonathan Trotts mental health which was awfully ignorant. When he's switched ion and not trying to be controversial he's a good cricket commentator but i do think he's a bellend.
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The Trott stuff was awful aye and really really angered me.
 
MustardAndOnions said:
Its a tricky balance, George Dobell has not come out of this well, he has been driving the Scotland thing

Where the bloke has been fully cleared yet they will not publicly admit it


The Trott stuff was awful aye and really really angered me.
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Its difficult - its probably right that Vaughan was cleared. The burden of proof is high and its 'your word against mine' from a decade or so ago. It doesn't mean on the balance of probability he didn't say the comments - his terrorist tweets are the same 'they are all the same' type of patter and 3 people recall him saying it. There's no physical proof, no recordings, it was a long time ago but if my life depended upon a straight choice between whether he said those words or not I would definitely vouch for him saying them.
The Trott stuff is just a further example of his character - hes awful.
 
rentaghost said:
Its difficult - its probably right that Vaughan was cleared. The burden of proof is high and its 'your word against mine' from a decade or so ago. It doesn't mean on the balance of probability he didn't say the comments - his terrorist tweets are the same 'they are all the same' type of patter and 3 people recall him saying it. There's no physical proof, no recordings, it was a long time ago but if my life depended upon a straight choice between whether he said those words or not I would definitely vouch for him saying them.
The Trott stuff is just a further example of his character - hes awful.
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You can't have someone just accusing people publicly thouh with no evidence mind...just saying he probs did say it look at his tweets, I dont think his fair.

I'd also argue Vaughan as an older bloke is a lot different to how he was a captain, when he was empathetic, and more of a human touch.
 
MustardAndOnions said:
You can't have someone just accusing people publicly thouh with no evidence mind...just saying he probs did say it look at his tweets, I dont think his fair.

I'd also argue Vaughan as an older bloke is a lot different to how he was a captain, when he was empathetic, and more of a human touch.
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Well there was evidence in so much two other people confirmed they heard it. The tweets and Trott stuff just give it more credence in my own mind that's all. Its not proof I agree.
 
rentaghost said:
He was suggesting Moeen should go around asking random young British Muslims if they are terrorists to make society safer. It sort of gives the 'they are all the same' message in the same way the alleged 'you lot' one did. Aside from racism there was the stuff about Jonathan Trotts mental health which was awfully ignorant. When he's switched ion and not trying to be controversial he's a good cricket commentator but i do think he's a bellend.
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Certainly a little clumsy but wouldn’t say it was racist.
 
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