Methven Gone

[Nelson!]

Possibly the reason for the recent departures, but the issues at the top have been a thing since before that

wasn't it suggested the sticking point in the takeover was current board members and the level of involvement they wanted?

Maybe the new lot are letting them stew (no pun intended) until they all but bail of their own accord.

 

[Father Jack Hackett]

What are they?

Someone who could motivate the players to put a shift in is the bottom line then someone who can create a system and bring their own players in.

Well, in my opinion, we aren't too bad when we get it on the deck, though we don't move it anywhere near quickly enough. All of our midfielders can pass a ball to feet. We have McGeady and Maguire who can win a game on their own, if used effectively and not having balls floating over their heads.
Hume is a good overlapping full back and, if we can get bodies in the box, we can create chances, as seen v Tranmere, before this fella got his ideas of how to play across and the cup game when Ross's assistant was in charge (we played some canny stuff that night).

As you say though, motivation and a system where our back four aren't constantly under pressure is vital. Playing 5 at the back with no-one to give the ball to against a team who like to get it into the box at every available opportunity was madness.

 

[Hawyatt Earp]

What are they?

Someone who could motivate the players to put a shift in is the bottom line then someone who can create a system and bring their own players in.

Poyet had a definitive way of playing which was enjoyable too. It was also the best I've ever seen Cattermole play. He utilised him perfectly. I'd be delighted if Poyet came back

 

[ilovehorswill]

To read GOM's post where he is basically saying you should have a calmer head when looking at things and realise life isn't black and white, then you respond with that. Do you think every single fan is an angel and that SD is the worst thing to ever happen to Sunderland and he has no redeeming features? People need to take a step back from the keyboard and actually look at other clubs who have gone into administration to see what we aren't and then hopefully learn a bit of perspective.

You're no better than the post you're quoting. I don't think anyone believes all fans are angels and Stewie Donald is some kind of supervillain.

If he was a supervillain he wouldn't have tucked himself so spectacularly.

 

[Cypher]

Poyet had a definitive way of playing which was enjoyable too. It was also the best I've ever seen Cattermole play. He utilised him perfectly. I'd be delighted if Poyet came back

Can't see it happening. His wage demands would be way too high. Also his transfer demands and not wanting to be associated with a L1 team.

 

[stevo]

Can't see it happening. His wage demands would be way too high. Also his transfer demands and not wanting to be associated with a L1 team.

Think he would been on the dole ages now ,but i hated the way we played under him boring stuff

 

[sir rowell cummins]

It's not a matter of defending SD. I do think what he's done on the non-playing side is good, but the playing side is a different matter. I didn't agree with the appointment of Parkinson - I'd have preferred Stendel. I can see a certain logic in his thinking, but it's faulty, and the fallout's happening. And I have a tendency to try to see both sides of an argument. But the deliberate starting of false stories to exaggerate the fallout is a bridge too far.


It was an impression I picked up before he joined. I'm not perfect. Clearly I was wrong. It happens. However, no person or group of persons are paragons of virtue. Certainly not me. I don't think Donald is Satan incarnate, but I don't think all our fans are angels either.

I don’t think Donald is a horrible bloke. I do think he is or he tried to be an opportunist to ready us for a sale and profit at the best / earliest point and has overestimated his ability to make good football decisions and get us up while he does this.

 

[Grumpy Old Man]

I don’t think Donald is a horrible bloke. I do think he is or he tried to be an opportunist to ready us for a sale and profit at the best / earliest point and has overestimated his ability to make good football decisions and get us up while he does this.

And that's fair enough. It's not a view I entirely agree with, but that's down to opinion, not emotion.

 

[REDNWHITE TRACTOR]

No im agreeing with ya its why im thinking jan could be our saviour

Ha sorry mate I thought you were questioning it!! Only with the right recruitment though will things improve and I have no confidence in our current set up to get that right unfortunately.

 

[stevo]

Ha sorry mate I thought you were questioning it!! Only with the right recruitment though will things improve and I have no confidence in our current set up to get that right unfortunately.

Yep so far coton and co have been crap.

 

[flusheding]

You're no better than the post you're quoting. I don't think anyone believes all fans are angels and Stewie Donald is some kind of supervillain.

If he was a supervillain he wouldn't have tucked himself so spectacularly.

That's an odd take, when the post I was quoting seems to suggest he does think those things.

 

[ilovehorswill]

That's an odd take, when the post I was quoting seems to suggest he does think those things.

He thinks Stewart Donald is shite as do most of this message board.

 

[hughbert]

To read GOM's post where he is basically saying you should have a calmer head when looking at things and realise life isn't black and white, then you respond with that. Do you think every single fan is an angel and that SD is the worst thing to ever happen to Sunderland and he has no redeeming features? People need to take a step back from the keyboard and actually look at other clubs who have gone into administration to see what we aren't and then hopefully learn a bit of perspective.

What are his redeeming features on regards to safc?

Take your time answering grumpy is still mulling over the same question since dinnertime.

You go on like theres no chance of administration here yet it has never been a more realistic possibility.

Go back to the strawberry tit

The strawberry tit?

Sounds good.

 

[Perryqhill]

Yet neither of them played a high defensive line with a 3 in midfield.
Neither of them played a high pressing game either. Having a player run in on his own isn't a high press.
When ross first came we didn't concede a goal from open play. We were conceding from corners and set plays, why he changed I don't know.
Get the back line higher up the pitch, only allowing the ball over the top and start squeezing the pitch.
Don't try and be "creative" we don't have that player in the team, but you don't need to at this level. Just pressurise the opposition to give you the ball. We have seen ourselves how easily that works.
Make sure that we aren't stretching the game. Our forward and defenders are miles apart meaning the midfield has no chance.
Keep the front 3 as a front 3.

Parkinson was playing a high defensive line, first few games. ross' side never sat back or deep either - Ross actually played a lop sided 352 early on, where Matthews added down the right or dropped in at centre half, with Gooch and Oviedo as wingbacks on a few occasions, that had three in midfield given Honeyman was hardly an out and out attacker.

Nomatter how you dress it up it isn't easy to do, it's not Football Manager and it's the goal for many sides. Early on we had a weakness from set pieces under Ross but refer back to individual games and you'll see sides knew they could just run at us centrally, about six games in everyone started to make it a physical battle too and we couldn't keep up trying to play a high tempo offensive style as we just didn't have mobility and energy in the side.

we also couldn't play a high line last season as we had no pace or mobility centrally both at the back or in central midfield - that was the reason we retreated like we did. this season we've added one central defender with pace who can barely kick a football and another next to him who shits himself on the ball, Central midfield we either have no one really capable on the ball either, unless again we included players with no energy and they've been poor anyway. it's a pretty horrible combination and isn't going to be cured by playing a 433 because the bare ingredients aren't really there - where's your goals coming from, your pace, energy, strength? Look at sides who pressurise us at this level and see the make up of their players, we have a side made up of midgets or the odd big lad lacking technique.

We have the players who could play this formation, we have a squad who can easily rotate as we don't have stand out players.
Would the players need coaching to play this style and formation, yes, of course as we currently stand around and don't move at all.
Would I like better players who could play this formation naturally, definitely.
This team with all its short comings is looking worse than it is because its not been set up correctly by 2 managers. Both tried to stretch the game, and I agree we don't have the players to play that game.
I'm not advocating total football, direct passes will work but it needs to be something that has a hope of getting to our player. Currently we are trying to go back to front with 60 yard passes.
The absolute basics are missing from our play. The distances between our players are all wrong, the unwillingness to move out of position because nobody will cover for you.

We just don't have the players to really play the formation though, certainly not fit at the moment anyway, we haven't got the raw ingredients to even pull a effective version of it off even at this level.

 

[Chewit]

Would he get that time from the fans in the current climate?

I think so, it’s ajourney we have been on before with him and we know he can manage the expectations .

Donald isnt the devil incarnate

Not all our fans are angels

Shows just who he favours.

Does it? Reading the same words and just seeing a balanced debate.

IMO if we had got promoted they would have flipped us.
Personally i wouldnt have had a problem with that as long as they had the correct investors/buyers to take over.
We didnt get promoted so any potential buyers have backed off.

Conjecture my lord, just like most stuff on here.

 

[Jonny]

Parkinson was playing a high defensive line, first few games. ross' side never sat back or deep either - Ross actually played a lop sided 352 early on, where Matthews added down the right or dropped in at centre half, with Gooch and Oviedo as wingbacks on a few occasions, that had three in midfield given Honeyman was hardly an out and out attacker.
Nomatter how you dress it up it isn't easy to do, it's not Football Manager and it's the goal for many sides. Early on we had a weakness from set pieces under Ross but refer back to individual games and you'll see sides knew they could just run at us centrally, about six games in everyone started to make it a physical battle too and we couldn't keep up trying to play a high tempo offensive style as we just didn't have mobility and energy in the side.
we also couldn't play a high line last season as we had no pace or mobility centrally both at the back or in central midfield - that was the reason we retreated like we did. this season we've added one central defender with pace who can barely kick a football and another next to him who shits himself on the ball, Central midfield we either have no one really capable on the ball either, unless again we included players with no energy and they've been poor anyway. it's a pretty horrible combination and isn't going to be cured by playing a 433 because the bare ingredients aren't really there - where's your goals coming from, your pace, energy, strength? Look at sides who pressurise us at this level and see the make up of their players, we have a side made up of midgets or the odd big lad lacking technique.
We just don't have the players to really play the formation though, certainly not fit at the moment anyway, we haven't got the raw ingredients to even pull a effective version of it off even at this level.

I agree last year would have been more difficult, but the defenders we had were still fast enough.
If we actually stop stretching the pitch then the lack of pace doesn't matter. Every time that we have played a 3 we play with a number 10. I think we need to play with a deep player.
Its slightly patronising to say its "football manager" to think that we can play this way. Its also not the goal of loads of all sides as we've seen by to managers. We haven't played this way as far back as I remember.
I wouldn't believe that we could play this way in the premier, probably not in the championship, but we can definitely play this way in league 1.
Defenders make more mistakes, have poorer passing ability and strikers miss more chances.
If we play high up the pitch then we don't need to worry about being as poor in the air as, if they play it over the top they have to make sure the pass is not too long.
If we played a midfield 3 who actually moved across the pitch then our forwards could attack rather than defending. Mcgeady could be in an area where he can make a positive impact.
For me its all about squeezing up the pitch making the playing space smaller closing the gaps between our players. We are still wide open for players through and still too deep based on the amount of crosses that come into the box.
The team and management need to be braver, at some point the ball over the top will work for the opposition, but in general we will see far more of the ball and create far more chances.
As ive said I'd be happy to sign new players but I still believe that any manager who can train these players to move and work as a unit should easily be able to get this club promoted.

 

[Perryqhill]

I think we've got enough players to be able to keep the ball and take a bit pressure off the back line, as we did last season. Obviously the intensity and physicality isn't there and we break painfully slowly so should be looking to dominate the ball imo, hence the amount of draws last season. We'll never be able to blow teams away but should be able to see enough of the ball to get something. The last bloke you want in for our calibre of player and to play that way is Phil Parkinson though.

I think we certainly could be doing better, maybe with some of our players we should be. Confidence and pressure problem added to that of a mish mash of recruitment and a direct manager mismanaging.

In actual fact I agreed with much of what PP said and tried to do early on - getting in the box, getting the ball forward, more chances, more energy in the side etc, talking about needing a more physical presence up front. He clearly knew we'd retracted and we weren't getting those chances, problem is Tranmere apart we weren't taking our chances and we were leaving ourselves open, being quite easy to counter. Since then things have regressed and regressed, confidence is drained and you wonder if he's lost the dressing room already, certainly looks like it. Even bringing Leadbitter back in is probably explained in trying to retain the ball a bit more and adding a bit of experience (even though it and he is massively failing). I can see why he's doing some of it, he's just doing it very badly.

 

[hughbert]

I think so, it’s ajourney we have been on before with him and we know he can manage the expectations .


Does it? Reading the same words and just seeing a balanced debate.


Conjecture my lord, just like most stuff on here.

Balanced debate by grumpy?

You either toe the line and back the club to the hilt or you are an uneducated fan or "no angel" at best.

Feet firmly under his masters table.

 

[Northumberland Rocks]

Go back to the strawberry tit

Spot on. How this gravy stain is allowed on here I'll never know.

 

[riffraff]

Yet neither of them played a high defensive line with a 3 in midfield.
Neither of them played a high pressing game either. Having a player run in on his own isn't a high press.
When ross first came we didn't concede a goal from open play. We were conceding from corners and set plays, why he changed I don't know.
Get the back line higher up the pitch, only allowing the ball over the top and start squeezing the pitch.
Don't try and be "creative" we don't have that player in the team, but you don't need to at this level. Just pressurise the opposition to give you the ball. We have seen ourselves how easily that works.
Make sure that we aren't stretching the game. Our forward and defenders are miles apart meaning the midfield has no chance.
Keep the front 3 as a front 3.
We have the players who could play this formation, we have a squad who can easily rotate as we don't have stand out players.
Would the players need coaching to play this style and formation, yes, of course as we currently stand around and don't move at all.
Would I like better players who could play this formation naturally, definitely.
This team with all its short comings is looking worse than it is because its not been set up correctly by 2 managers. Both tried to stretch the game, and I agree we don't have the players to play that game.
I'm not advocating total football, direct passes will work but it needs to be something that has a hope of getting to our player. Currently we are trying to go back to front with 60 yard passes.
The absolute basics are missing from our play. The distances between our players are all wrong, the unwillingness to move out of position because nobody will cover for you.

Spot on.