Leicester City PSR breach.

[FanchesterCity]

So clubs who have 1 or 2 charges, get dealt with pretty quickly, before a club with over 100 charges? It's not been explained properly imo why City have not had to deal with consequences yet, when the likes of Everton, Forest and now Leicester have to. You can see why these fans of these clubs are cheesed off.

It's been explained many times, but people don't listen.

Forest and Everton's charges are quite simple. Their books show they overspent. The mitigation is the circumstances causing them to overspend.
City's case is that they have committed fraud and failed to co-operated. If you accuse someone of fraud, then you're not just claiming City fiddled the books, you're claiming a series of independent auditors fucked up and that the sponsors were also in on it. That's why both parties tread very carefully with very strong legal teams on both sides.

 

[Hardyman's Yugo]

Except the governing body is not independent. It's made up of the damn clubs themselves!
The PL is making up its own rules. For the good of the wider game, or for the good of themselves?

Another one. Best of luck defending yourself against the 115 specific charges and the allegations of lying and concealment. You’ll be trotting out against Macclesfield when this is over.

 

[Random Precision]

Like City you mean who can just about win everything they play in? Clubs owners who have completely distorted the competition. Why are we in the position where oil rich states are owning clubs and have spent insane amounts of money?

The problem here is the football authorities have acted too late, the horse has long bolted.

TBH, City winning and being successful makes a change from the usual suspects, Liverpool, Arsenal and Man U. What those clubs don’t like is richer folks than them are turning up in the league given that they used to be the richest.

 

[mad cyril]

This is partly why City's 115 charges (many of which are multiple instances of the same thing) are taking so long.
If (as per Forest and Everton's situation) you overspend against a rule that limits the overspending, then it's a relatively simpler matter, although even that can be open to interpretation of circumstances...

But if you're going to accuse a company of cooking the books... then everything moves up a massive notch. Now you're accusing independent financial auditors of either being complicit, or incompetent and you're also then suggesting it's not just the club that's in on the cooking of the books, but the sponsors too. It's all getting very legal at that point and the PL could end up in serious bother.

That's no to claim City are innocent (or not) - it's merely illustrating that once you start throwing more serious allegations around it's going to end up getting very legal with bigger repercussions for all concerned.

I agree.
Sooner or later ( and my money is on sooner ) there’s going to be a huge legal case brought against the PL.
ultimately they’re damaging and ruining the very thing they claim to be the best in the world.
I

 

[FoldingStars]

So clubs who have 1 or 2 charges, get dealt with pretty quickly, before a club with over 100 charges? It's not been explained properly imo why City have not had to deal with consequences yet, when the likes of Everton, Forest and now Leicester have to. You can see why these fans of these clubs are cheesed off.

It has been explained on this forum 10 times in the last week alone, Everton and Forest were charged with a single case, Everton (1st charge) had 20k documents, you need a panel of 3 experts to study these documents so not only are experts not sitting around waiting but they then need weeks/months to study the documents and take all that into consideration. City have 115 charges and some of the deepest pockets known to man so if you say 10k documents per charge that's over 1m documents.

Then the experts to sit in the panel, city charges aren't just over spending but marketing deals so you can't just have a KC you'll need experts in sports marketing so again harder to find. Now the biggest reason it's taking so long, Everton and Forest admitted fault but had reasons, City are fighting every charge.

In simple terms Everton and Forest are the local lad who's stole a sandwich from greggs whereas City have been arrested in some multi national fraud case. Nobody would complain that one is taking less time than the other but due to footballing rivalries people get blinkered and look for excuses.

There are other reasons it's taking much longer, much more intelligent people have explained it in better ways than I but the Premier League are certainly not turning a blind eye.

 

[FanchesterCity]

Like City you mean who can just about win everything they play in? Clubs owners who have completely distorted the competition. Why are we in the position where oil rich states are owning clubs and have spent insane amounts of money?

The problem here is the football authorities have acted too late, the horse has long bolted.

You do realise Liverpool and United dominated football for more than City have and with far more success right? Yes City have done amazingly well (and paid a handsome price for the success), but it's still nowhere near 20 years of dominance. The league really wasn't so much more competitive before.

And let's not forget, some clubs have spent a fortune and not been successful, so whilst money has a huge influence, it's not a guarantee.

'Completely distorted the competition' is hyperbole. The few interlopers who broke the United dominance (Blackburn and Leeds) only did so via massive spending.

 

[mad cyril]

Another one. Best of luck defending yourself against the 115 specific charges and the allegations of lying and concealment. You’ll be trotting out against Macclesfield when this is over.

We all know that’s not going to happen.
If the PL wants to maintain its cash cow status and sell all over the world, they need messers Guardiola, Haarland and Foden to be its main attraction.

 

[Ale taster]

FFP/FMV/PSR will also go the same way given that they’re anti competitive constructs. Within 2-3 seasons they’ll be gone, a legal challenge against these rules isn’t that far away.

Still seething about Europe, League Cup and FA Cup in one season are we?
69 years and counting ......

 

[southstander]

Their breach would have benefitted their championship campaign surely?

Demote them all the way down to the bottom for me.

Throw every fucker that breaks the rules out of the league and let them start at the bottom of the pyramid. Until you do that they will keep ‘stretching’ the rules and those that abide by them suffer as a result.

 

[R5Skywalker]

It's been explained many times, but people don't listen.

Forest and Everton's charges are quite simple. Their books show they overspent. The mitigation is the circumstances causing them to overspend.
City's case is that they have committed fraud and failed to co-operated. If you accuse someone of fraud, then you're not just claiming City fiddled the books, you're claiming a series of independent auditors fucked up and that the sponsors were also in on it. That's why both parties tread very carefully with very strong legal teams on both sides.

So City's failure to cooperate is in effect, helping them achieve greatness. So what happens to all the titles and cups etc City have won in this time, if of course they ate found guilty? No one wants to be handed a trophy retrospectively (unless you are Phillipe Massa). I appreciate its a pigs ear, and views will of course be different.

It has been explained on this forum 10 times in the last week alone, Everton and Forest were charged with a single case, Everton (1st charge) had 20k documents, you need a panel of 3 experts to study these documents so not only are experts not sitting around waiting but they then need weeks/months to study the documents and take all that into consideration. City have 115 charges and some of the deepest pockets known to man so if you say 10k documents per charge that's over 1m documents.

Then the experts to sit in the panel, city charges aren't just over spending but marketing deals so you can't just have a KC you'll need experts in sports marketing so again harder to find. Now the biggest reason it's taking so long, Everton and Forest admitted fault but had reasons, City are fighting every charge.

In simple terms Everton and Forest are the local lad who's stole a sandwich from greggs whereas City have been arrested in some multi national fraud case. Nobody would complain that one is taking less time than the other but due to footballing rivalries people get blinkered and look for excuses.

There are other reasons it's taking much longer, much more intelligent people have explained it in better ways than I but the Premier League are certainly not turning a blind eye.

Aye, u understand it fella. Just think if we were one of the clubs being deducted points etc, we'd all be saying it's unfair, when bigger crimes are happening up the ladder. That's the point I'm trying to make (just doing it badly )

 

[only one rade prica]

Parachute payments need to stop, it's massively unfair on the rest of the division.

The splitting up of the league in 92 was always going to cause this disparity

 

[FanchesterCity]

Another one. Best of luck defending yourself against the 115 specific charges and the allegations of lying and concealment. You’ll be trotting out against Macclesfield when this is over.

You do realise that if the police come knocking at your door and you choose not to talk, then your 'non cooperation' doesn't make you guilty, it just means a) you've been advised not to cooperate by your counsel and that b) You don't entirely trust the people wanting to search your house?

You're also not likely to have much faith in an institution using 'hacked' emails from a convicted hacker having been demonstrated on multiple occasions to have doctored documents?

You're also not likely to trust an institution that hurriedly releases the charges just days before the government announces it favours independent regulation, and makes such a fuck up of the released charges, they had to redo them as they were littered with mistakes, suggesting they were a reactive attempt to try and look 'in control of their own house'.

Indeed all the recent showboating has been a ruse to appear like the PL can keep its own house in order (because it's in danger of losing credibility and becoming independently regulated).

And if we end up trotting out against Macclesfield, so be it. We can all go back to life as it was... Arsenal, Liverpool and United.

 

[Hardyman's Yugo]

You do realise that if the police come knocking at your door and you choose not to talk, then your 'non cooperation' doesn't make you guilty, it just means a) you've been advised not to cooperate by your counsel and that b) You don't entirely trust the people wanting to search your house?

You're also not likely to have much faith in an institution using 'hacked' emails from a convicted hacker having been demonstrated on multiple occasions to have doctored documents?

You're also not likely to trust an institution that hurriedly releases the charges just days before the government announces it favours independent regulation, and makes such a fuck up of the released charges, they had to redo them as they were littered with mistakes, suggesting they were a reactive attempt to try and look 'in control of their own house'.

Indeed all the recent showboating has been a ruse to appear like the PL can keep its own house in order (because it's in danger of losing credibility and becoming independently regulated).

And if we end up trotting out against Macclesfield, so be it. We can all go back to life as it was... Arsenal, Liverpool and United.

I think you’re being a tad optimistic about what’s been happening and the likely outcome. I work with a couple of City fans and they both think you are f****d

 

[FanchesterCity]

It's a mess regardless of City's titles. Everton's points deduction affects clubs around them. Did some clubs take it easy believing Everton were down? did other clubs choose to rest certain players believing they were safer than they really were?

The repercussions are throughout the entire table.

Forest's example is interesting where because they held on to a player whilst the bidding war went up (doing good business), they are now penalised because they should have sold early for less money, but without the right financial period. How is that promoting good financial managment?

How is Man United's staggering debt good, if their ability to service the debt depends on their success?

It's a mess from start to finish and shows no signs of getting better, only worse.

I think you’re being a tad optimistic about what’s been happening and the likely outcome. I work with a couple of City fans and they both think you are f****d

It's clearly not cut and dried, or it wouldn't be 10 years in the making, nor would it be dragging on this long.
Regardless of the eventual outcome, it's patently obvious that it's not a simple matter. UEFA went down a similar route and CAS overruled them. Some issues were time barred. Some were not proven and some (over inflated sponsorship) were dismissed (as CAS deemed them fair value)

 

[Grumpy Old Man]

Except the governing body is not independent. It's made up of the damn clubs themselves!
The PL is making up its own rules. For the good of the wider game, or for the good of themselves?

just as well an independent regulator is coming then. Hopefully with real teeth.

 

[FoldingStars]

So City's failure to cooperate is in effect, helping them achieve greatness. So what happens to all the titles and cups etc City have won in this time, if of course they ate found guilty? No one wants to be handed a trophy retrospectively (unless you are Phillipe Massa). I appreciate its a pigs ear, and views will of course be different.


Aye, u understand it fella. Just think if we were one of the clubs being deducted points etc, we'd all be saying it's unfair, when bigger crimes are happening up the ladder. That's the point I'm trying to make (just doing it badly )

The few Everton fans in here are prime example of how majority would react. Instead of blaming the club it's the leagues fault (the teams are the league, they decide the rules). It was the same with Wigan, they went skint a new bloke came in doing the same thing but the fans were bragging, then when shit git the fan they started shouting how did he pass the Fit and Proper person test, efl are a joke.

Can't wait till 777 are rejected from owning Everton as thats another car crash, somehow leveraged the club for £150m but they don't seem to have any profitable businesses and everyone they do deals with are now sueing them.

just as well an independent regulator is coming then. Hopefully with real teeth.

Do you think it'll have real teeth?

 

[Grumpy Old Man]

I agree.
Sooner or later ( and my money is on sooner ) there’s going to be a huge legal case brought against the PL.
ultimately they’re damaging and ruining the very thing they claim to be the best in the world.
I

It's the worst already, because it's not a sporting competition.

The perfect sporting competition is one in which all entrants have a reasonable chance of success. 14 of the 20 clubs in the Premier League might as well not bother.

The PL is like a handicap horse race, except that the favourite is allowed to run with no jockey, and the milkman's nag has the highest weight.

The few Everton fans in here are prime example of how majority would react. Instead of blaming the club it's the leagues fault (the teams are the league, they decide the rules). It was the same with Wigan, they went skint a new bloke came in doing the same thing but the fans were bragging, then when shit git the fan they started shouting how did he pass the Fit and Proper person test, efl are a joke.

Can't wait till 777 are rejected from owning Everton as thats another car crash, somehow leveraged the club for £150m but they don't seem to have any profitable businesses and everyone they do deals with are now sueing them.

Do you think it'll have real teeth?

We can dream

 

[Mulhallyall]

I agree.
Sooner or later ( and my money is on sooner ) there’s going to be a huge legal case brought against the PL.
ultimately they’re damaging and ruining the very thing they claim to be the best in the world.
I

It's like Frankenstein !

The Premier League created a monster. The monster has got out of control. In fact the monster has mutiplied. Frankenstein has babies. More Frankensteins.

The villagers (fans) were correct when the approached the Premier League Chateau with their torches. The villagers could see a bad future.

No one supports the Premier League now. Not the villagers nor the Frankensteins.

 

[FanchesterCity]

I doubt an independent regulator will be truly independent.
The PL is good PR for the UK. We are cutting all sorts of business deals with the Middle East, China, USA... and certainly don't want to sour relationships.

In the grand scheme, the PL is small fry business. Our biggest clubs are worth a couple of billion whilst BP are turning over almost that in a single day... (puts things into perspective), but still the PR is a huge thing and the perception of PL is one of incredible success which has knock on benefits for the UK.

Money you see... it always comes down to money. Wherever there is the whiff of it, there will be corruption, bias, greed and ulterior motives. Independent regulator or not.

 

[Hardyman's Yugo]

It's clearly not cut and dried, or it wouldn't be 10 years in the making, nor would it be dragging on this long.

You’re have a laugh right? It’s only dragged on this long because (allegedly) your club concealed all the evidence and lied. You only got off the UEFA charges because they were time barred not because they were wrong.

Forest and Everton fessed up. Your lot didn’t do which is why I believe you’ll be hit very hard