Leccy cars

[anth]

Yeah, it does feel like we're sleepwalking into an era where people without a driveway basically can't own a car. Or have to pay for public quick charging at double the rate.

I think, around Sunderland at least, that is the minority. A lot of cottages and terraced houses could use their back yards to put a vehicle in and charge it there. Very few actually do at the moment, so that would be a shift. However most houses have multiple vehicles and I think that's going to be a big issue for people. I think off street parking for multiple vehicles is a tiny minority so people have to park a car on the roadside even if they do have off street parking, simply because they have another car there.

 

[Dave Herbal]

Been looking at EVs lately so get a lot of EV ads pushed to me on Facebook.
I've noticed there's always loads of laughing reactions on them which I found a bit odd - it's just an add for a car. So I checked a few out and it's aways older blokes who have 18 attempts at the same profile photo, studied at the University of Life or they are holding up a big fish. I reckon @SAFCOldie is one of them random laughers on EV adverts.

Test drove the Polestar and the i4 so far. Polestar the better of the two for me. i4 sexier but I'm not really a BMW type. More Volvo which is Polestar.
Need to get the ID4, Ionic 5 and the Kia whatever it's called test driven then decide.

My Kia Niro is mint, so I imagine the EV6 is similar but more space age looking.

 

[PTR]

I think, around Sunderland at least, that is the minority. A lot of cottages and terraced houses could use their back yards to put a vehicle in and charge it there. Very few actually do at the moment, so that would be a shift. However most houses have multiple vehicles and I think that's going to be a big issue for people. I think off street parking for multiple vehicles is a tiny minority so people have to park a car on the roadside even if they do have off street parking, simply because they have another car there.

Raises another point, when the time comes, lots of people will have 2 cars to charge - Going to be a hell of a load on a standard domestic supply? 2 cars and someone charging their solar batteries at the same time might even peak at 100A.

 

[42]

I think this is the single biggest problem longer term with EVs, far more so than anything to do with the grid. More and more people are getting solar panels on the roofs and batteries in their garages so they can charge an EV without actually using the grid. That's all fine for cars on a drive on charge. You can't be running charging cables across the pavement.

And this is one my biggest frustrations with this whole thing, there's millions of folk who've been overlooked & potentially could be thrown under the bus.

On the subject of grid capacity, there was a boss of one of the service stations in the news the other day saying that he's being prevented from installing badly needed chargers due to lack of infrastructure on the energy providers side, and is now having to employ wardens as its getting a bit overly aggressive queuing for chargers

 

[Dave Herbal]

I think, around Sunderland at least, that is the minority. A lot of cottages and terraced houses could use their back yards to put a vehicle in and charge it there. Very few actually do at the moment, so that would be a shift. However most houses have multiple vehicles and I think that's going to be a big issue for people. I think off street parking for multiple vehicles is a tiny minority so people have to park a car on the roadside even if they do have off street parking, simply because they have another car there.

Back yards are a problem when you have other stuff in them. I’ve had to cram my furniture, flower beds and assorted other junk into one corner to allow me to get the car in. It also requires a feat of reversing that quite frankly would be beyond a lot of drivers out there. I need both mirrors, reversing camera, markers in the back lane, lights on in the house and no rain in order to get in without getting a stress on. Nervous reversers would have no chance.
However, I only need to charge once every two days, and most people much less frequently, so rotating multiple cars on one charger shouldn’t be a great problem.
Incidentally, all the new builds at Witherwack have got built in chargers out front.

Raises another point, when the time comes, lots of people will have 2 cars to charge - Going to be a hell of a load on a standard domestic supply? 2 cars and someone charging their solar batteries at the same time might even peak at 100A.

You’re not going to have 2 chargers though. You’ll take turns.

 

[Zidane]

I still have a really old consumer unit for the house.

Could i even get a home charger installed with an old consumer box and secondly how do the suppliers know when you are using electricity during the night? I presume the really old meter would need changed too?

Do i need a specific type of consumer unit/meter that tracks such things?

 

[anth]

And this is one my biggest frustrations with this whole thing, there's millions of folk who've been overlooked & potentially could be thrown under the bus.

On the subject of grid capacity, there was a boss of one of the service stations in the news the other day saying that he's being prevented from installing badly needed chargers due to lack of infrastructure on the energy providers side, and is now having to employ wardens as its getting a bit overly aggressive queuing for chargers

I think the dates thrown about are meaningless though. People are talking like on that date that is, all petrola and diesel cars will stop working. Obviously that's not the case and there will be a thriving used car market for them, even at new car dealers. So there is quite a long time to get this sorted, the current date of 2035 is as far away as we are now from the Nissan Leaf first coming to market was.

Back yards are a problem when you have other stuff in them. I’ve had to cram my furniture, flower beds and assorted other junk into one corner to allow me to get the car in. It also requires a feat of reversing that quite frankly would be beyond a lot of drivers out there. I need both mirrors, reversing camera, markers in the back lane, lights on in the house and no rain in order to get in without getting a stress on. Nervous reversers would have no chance.
However, I only need to charge once every two days, and most people much less frequently, so rotating multiple cars on one charger shouldn’t be a great problem.
Incidentally, all the new builds at Witherwack have got built in chargers out front.

You’re not going to have 2 chargers though. You’ll take turns.

They absolutely are and people will have to get rid of all that stuff to fit a car in. The idea of only charging every couple of days didn't even cross my mind! But you are totally correct in that. With a range of about 250-300 miles it's likely for most people they could go longer, 3-4 days without charging. It would mean some arguements over whose car gets what, and probably some husbands getting up in the middle of the night to swap the cars over but it's probably do-able.

 

[Dave Herbal]

I still have a really old consumer unit for the house.

Could i even get a home charger installed with an old consumer box and secondly how do the suppliers know when you are using electricity during the night? I presume the really old meter would need changed too?

Do i need a specific type of consumer unit/meter that tracks such things?

You need a smart meter

I think the dates thrown about are meaningless though. People are talking like on that date that is, all petrola and diesel cars will stop working. Obviously that's not the case and there will be a thriving used car market for them, even at new car dealers. So there is quite a long time to get this sorted, the current date of 2035 is as far away as we are now from the Nissan Leaf first coming to market was.



They absolutely are and people will have to get rid of all that stuff to fit a car in. The idea of only charging every couple of days didn't even cross my mind! But you are totally correct in that. With a range of about 250-300 miles it's likely for most people they could go longer, 3-4 days without charging. It would mean some arguements over whose car gets what, and probably some husbands getting up in the middle of the night to swap the cars over but it's probably do-able.

Must people commute less than 20 miles so you could be talking once a fortnight.

 

[PTR]

You’re not going to have 2 chargers though. You’ll take turns.

Who's getting up at 3am to change them over?

If you're not doing big miles, then sure. But anyone who has a small & big capacity pair, the small will likely need charging daily for many folks (not me, mind)

I still have a really old consumer unit for the house.

Could i even get a home charger installed with an old consumer box and secondly how do the suppliers know when you are using electricity during the night? I presume the really old meter would need changed too?

Do i need a specific type of consumer unit/meter that tracks such things?

Yeah, the power draw will be governed by the "big fuse" on the consumer unit. I seem to have 2, one at 100a and the other is 60.

They know when you're using the power in 3 ways. Either you have a smart meter, a smart EV charger, or even the smart bit is built into some cars. Depends on the supplier's requirements

 

[Fcomp]

However most houses have multiple vehicles

That's not true.
There are 33 million cars in the UK and 28 million households, so the maximum number of households with more than 1 car can't be more than 17%.
Of my 18 closest neighbours, only one of them has more than 1 car.

 

[legend7]

Aye, that's about 3p higher than the cap rate on a non-split time rate.

I pay 25p through day and 9p when grid quiet with ovo.

 

[Dave Herbal]

Who's getting up at 3am to change them over?

If you're not doing big miles, then sure. But anyone who has a small & big capacity pair, the small will likely need charging daily for many folks (not me, mind)

I’ll stick my neck out and say there are very few households with 2 or more cars doing over 100 miles a day, so there should be no need for midnight swapping.
What I do foresee causing major problems is the millions of people who can’t or don’t plan things. People expect to jump in the car and drive and not worry about anything until the fuel light comes on. Having to start thinking “I’ve got to drive 200 miles on Wednesday and I’m half charged so I need to charge 4 hours off peak on Monday and then on Tuesday I need to remember to turn the “off peak only” setting off and plug it in all night to compensate for the slow last 20% of capacity. Then when I get back I need to turn it back on again and give it another 4 hours so I can get to work Thursday”. That will absolutely blow people’s minds.

 

[anth]

That's not true.
There are 33 million cars in the UK and 28 million households, so the maximum number of households with more than 1 car can't be more than 17%.
Of my 18 closest neighbours, only one of them has more than 1 car.

must just be my street then, i think my house is the only one with one car, that is only because I use a motorbike to get to work

 

[Dave Herbal]

Also, let’s not forget the shocking number of people who can’t do maths. Having to juggle trip distances, range, charging time, capacity etc is going to be fun for them.

 

[Horatio Pugwash]

That's not true.
There are 33 million cars in the UK and 28 million households, so the maximum number of households with more than 1 car can't be more than 17%.
Of my 18 closest neighbours, only one of them has more than 1 car.

You are lucky, my next door neighbour has a winnibago type rv, a transit, a minibus and two cars.

 

[Mackem00]

That's not true.
There are 33 million cars in the UK and 28 million households, so the maximum number of households with more than 1 car can't be more than 17%.
Of my 18 closest neighbours, only one of them has more than 1 car.

That's not how it works mate. There'll be shitloads of people with no car amongst the 28 million households.

I reckon less than 5% of the houses on my estate have one car or less mind. I'm one of them.

Also, let’s not forget the shocking number of people who can’t do maths. Having to juggle trip distances, range, charging time, capacity etc is going to be fun for them.

What's the difference between running out of petrol and running out of charge tho? They are just dials/numbers you have to keep an eye on on the dashboard and react when they drop low.

 

[Dave Herbal]

That's not how it works mate. There'll be shitloads of people with no car amongst the 28 million households.

I reckon less than 5% of the houses on my estate have one car or less mind. I'm one of them.

What's the difference between running out of petrol and running out of charge tho? They are just dials/numbers you have to keep an eye on on the dashboard and react when they drop low.

You can refill a car in minutes in any town, not so an EV. And you have to plan everything beyond your normal commute with military precision unless you want to spend hours waiting at services for a charger.
I was in Blackpool (pop. 150,000) in the summer and there were 2 fast chargers, one of which was bust.

 

[Fcomp]

That's not how it works mate.

That's exactly how it works.
That other household have 3+ cars reduces the percentage of households with more than 1 car below 17%.
The maximum households with more than 1 car is 17%.

 

[Mackem00]

That's exactly how it works.
That other household have 3+ cars reduces the percentage of households with more than 1 car below 17%.
The maximum households with more than 1 car is 17%.

What happens if 5 million households (for example) have no cars?

I may be being daft here if i've missed something.

 

[42]

What happens if 5 million households (for example) have no cars?

I may be being daft here if i've missed something.

If half the population have no car & other half have 2 cars, then the average is 1 car. Unless your just talking about the average of households that have a car, so ignoring people who live in city centre flats & retirement homes, to skew the data to fit the argument. Prove anything with stats etc.....

You can refill a car in minutes in any town, not so an EV. And you have to plan everything beyond your normal commute with military precision unless you want to spend hours waiting at services for a charger.
I was in Blackpool (pop. 150,000) in the summer and there were 2 fast chargers, one of which was bust.

Aye, but you can't even plan something as basic as getting to work on time