Lack of transfers concerning?

johnnyat87 said:
They are one interpretation of the facts certainly.

You could just as easily have said:

Enthusiastic, billionaire owner (x3 if you're just looking at board/directors) ..... in League One
Young, hungry, and respected backroom staff, DoF, etc. recruited from teams higher in the pyramid than us, rather than from Oxford and Eastleigh
High calibre boardroom in place (certainly compared to what we've endured for the last decade)
Investment in recruitment, data analysis, etc. suitable for a club much higher than we are currently
A squad ripe for a much needed and long overdue overhaul, and truth be told none of us will miss Wyke :lol:

Unproven manager, but let's see how he does.

I'm not saying everything is rosey, but it's certainly not all a disaster either.
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Yeah I am not saying it is a disaster but a lot of variables. The data analysis approach is what we are counting on but we won't spend the money on the software, hmmm.
 


garyswc said:
Yeah I am not saying it is a disaster but a lot of variables. The data analysis approach is what we are counting on but we won't spend the money on the software, hmmm.
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Oh aye, a lot of variables, but I think the people running the show now will get it right, even if not everything is perfect immediately.

Just because we didn't shop at Waitrose, doesn't mean we're buying from Farm Foods either. We might just have the M&S version, more than sufficient for our level.

I'd rather we made sensible decisions and build into a sustainable club rather than throw needless money around. Time will tell, but I'm hopeful it will work out better in the long run than it has been for years.
 
I think the problem is the unknown.

I'd like to think the majority are behind the new system and individuals in charge but we have very little to actually point to them being able to implement it well, we also have no idea of the budget.

If it were somewhere that the process had been proven, a Barnsley, Brentford, Norwich or Peterborough it wouldn't be an issue.

As it stands we're in the dark and if there is one thing that Sunderland fans have come to expect, it's a kick in the teeth.

That being said, I think it would be reasonable to have at least one confirmed given our beyond large restructure although were not quite at the tipping point yet. It's either a very good thing that we are keeping everything in-house and out of media or a travesty that we are doing zip whilst folk holiday.
johnnyat87 said:
They are one interpretation of the facts certainly.

You could just as easily have said:

Enthusiastic, billionaire owner (x3 if you're just looking at board/directors) ..... in League One
Young, hungry, and respected backroom staff, DoF, etc. recruited from teams higher in the pyramid than us, rather than from Oxford and Eastleigh
High calibre boardroom in place (certainly compared to what we've endured for the last decade)
Investment in recruitment, data analysis, etc. suitable for a club much higher than we are currently
A squad ripe for a much needed and long overdue overhaul, and truth be told none of us will miss Wyke :lol:

Unproven manager, but let's see how he does.

I'm not saying everything is rosey, but it's certainly not all a disaster either.
Click to expand...

I disagree with this bit, the process should always be proven prior to scaling. Granted the pool is far smaller but the details will need refining prior to a larger investment/risk.
 
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Coeus said:
I think the problem is the unknown.

I'd like to think the majority are behind the new system and individuals in charge but we have very little to actually point to them being able to implement it well, we also have no idea of the budget.

If it were somewhere that the process had been proven, a Barnsley, Brentford, Norwich or Peterborough it wouldn't be an issue.

As it stands we're in the dark and if there is one thing that Sunderland fans have come to expect, it's a kick in the teeth.

That being said, I think it would be reasonable to have at least one confirmed given our beyond large restructure although were not quite at the tipping point yet. It's either a very good thing that we are keeping everything in-house and out of media or a travesty that we are doing zip whilst folk holiday.
Click to expand...
Oh aye, the unknown is the issue, and given recent history as a fanbase we don't handle unknowns very well :lol:

I think we need to accept that there will be bumps in the road, but at least the decisions being made, and systems being put in place make sense and hopefully, long term will bring success.

Hopefully there's enough for a short term kick up the arse to get us out of this division as well like. Then I'm happy to be patient while the system beds in a little in the Championship.
 
johnnyat87 said:
Oh aye, the unknown is the issue, and given recent history as a fanbase we don't handle unknowns very well :lol:

I think we need to accept that there will be bumps in the road, but at least the decisions being made, and systems being put in place make sense and hopefully, long term will bring success.

Hopefully there's enough for a short term kick up the arse to get us out of this division as well like. Then I'm happy to be patient while the system beds in a little in the Championship.
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I kind of view it in the sense that I don't care about promotion from this league, I care about being competitive in the prem.

The championship is an absolute basket case financially and I hope we don't go into it without a proven process that will get us out of it asap.
 
johnnyat87 said:
Oh aye, a lot of variables, but I think the people running the show now will get it right, even if not everything is perfect immediately.

Just because we didn't shop at Waitrose, doesn't mean we're buying from Farm Foods either. We might just have the M&S version, more than sufficient for our level.

I'd rather we made sensible decisions and build into a sustainable club rather than throw needless money around. Time will tell, but I'm hopeful it will work out better in the long run than it has been for years.
Click to expand...

Can't argue with any of that sentiment, particularly the final paragraph. Our recruitment has been disastrous for as long as anyone can remember and it is why we are rooted in league one, I am not advocating throwing money around except maybe on the market leading analytics software, worrying that we aren't. I am hopeful that the Younger, Embleton, Diamond, Neil, Hawkes and possibly Kimpioka all get fully assimilated into the squad this season rather than bringing in shite to play ahead of them.
 
Coeus said:
I think the problem is the unknown.

I'd like to think the majority are behind the new system and individuals in charge but we have very little to actually point to them being able to implement it well, we also have no idea of the budget.

If it were somewhere that the process had been proven, a Barnsley, Brentford, Norwich or Peterborough it wouldn't be an issue.

As it stands we're in the dark and if there is one thing that Sunderland fans have come to expect, it's a kick in the teeth.

That being said, I think it would be reasonable to have at least one confirmed given our beyond large restructure although were not quite at the tipping point yet. It's either a very good thing that we are keeping everything in-house and out of media or a travesty that we are doing zip whilst folk holiday.


I disagree with this bit, the process should always be proven prior to scaling. Granted the pool is far smaller but the details will need refining prior to a larger investment/risk.
Click to expand...
Oh I'm not saying it's all in place and nothing would need adding or changing while we sail up the divisions mate. Just from the outside looking in, based on Speakmans comments, walls being shifted to make room, new appointments being made etc, it sounds to me like a bigger operation than anyone else at this level is likely to have. I could be wrong.

Either way, at least in theory, we're attemtpting to bring our recruitment up to scratch and not just relying on a scout having a mate, who knows someone who knows the agent of a 30 year old journeyman who might just be interested if the agent is given a decent brown envelope.
 
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garyswc said:
Yeah I am not saying it is a disaster but a lot of variables. The data analysis approach is what we are counting on but we won't spend the money on the software, hmmm.
Click to expand...

Regarding the data software, I believe Speakman said the plan is to produce our own software platform and modelling in-house as it needs to be bespoke to the needs of the club and how we want the team to play, that's what the new data lads are/have been working on.

Maybe we looked at the cost of the current market leader and decided we were better spending that money on the development of our own model instead?

Also, our needs as a L1 club compared to a PL club are pretty different, we're not going to be signing many if any from abroad etc. so we shouldn't necessarily need to buy the same package as PL clubs, we won't be looking at the same player data, once we progress and start shopping in that market then fine.
 
magic snood said:
Regarding the data software, I believe Speakman said the plan is to produce our own software platform and modelling in-house as it needs to be bespoke to the needs of the club and how we want the team to play, that's what the new data lads are/have been working on.

Maybe we looked at the cost of the current market leader and decided we were better spending that money on the development of our own model instead?

Also, our needs as a L1 club compared to a PL club are pretty different, we're not going to be signing many if any from abroad etc. so we shouldn't necessarily need to buy the same package as PL clubs, we won't be looking at the same player data, once we progress and start shopping in that market then fine.
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Some championship clubs use it too and there is no reason a league one club can't as it covers the entire market at all levels. Apparently SAFC initiated contact with the company but bowed out as the spend is not in the budget. Developing our own model from scratch, hmmm okay.
 
garyswc said:
Some championship clubs use it too and there is no reason a league one club can't as it covers the entire market at all levels. Apparently SAFC initiated contact with the company but bowed out as the spend is not in the budget. Developing our own model from scratch, hmmm okay.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately we aren't a championship club though, why would we need to spend money covering the entire market? We're highly unlikely to be signing anybody from France/Spain/Germany/Italy etc because of work permits. As I said, we may have decided that it wasn't best use of budget, rather than the budget not being there at all.

Even the market leading companies today aren't huge operations, Statsbomb had 10 employees at the end of 2019 according to their accounts. Therefore it's perfectly feasible for us to develop our own model from scratch if we're hiring a dedicated data science/analysis team, it will just take time to develop and tweak as we go on, it's a long term project.
 
magic snood said:
Regarding the data software, I believe Speakman said the plan is to produce our own software platform and modelling in-house as it needs to be bespoke to the needs of the club and how we want the team to play, that's what the new data lads are/have been working on.

Maybe we looked at the cost of the current market leader and decided we were better spending that money on the development of our own model instead?

Also, our needs as a L1 club compared to a PL club are pretty different, we're not going to be signing many if any from abroad etc. so we shouldn't necessarily need to buy the same package as PL clubs, we won't be looking at the same player data, once we progress and start shopping in that market then fine.
Click to expand...
Haven't read the thread but what's all this about we won't shell out for software?

As for building our own platform, I actually shudder to think
 
johnnyat87 said:
They are one interpretation of the facts certainly.

You could just as easily have said:

Enthusiastic, billionaire owner (x3 if you're just looking at board/directors) ..... in League One
Young, hungry, and respected backroom staff, DoF, etc. recruited from teams higher in the pyramid than us, rather than from Oxford and Eastleigh
High calibre boardroom in place (certainly compared to what we've endured for the last decade)
Investment in recruitment, data analysis, etc. suitable for a club much higher than we are currently
A squad ripe for a much needed and long overdue overhaul, and truth be told none of us will miss Wyke :lol:

Unproven manager, but let's see how he does.

I'm not saying everything is rosey, but it's certainly not all a disaster either.
Click to expand...
the DOF has never previously held that role anywhere in his life-he isnt respected in it as he has never held such a role before and so
cant have earned respect doing it.
The head of recruitment came from a championship club, just as his predescessor did.
The baodroom is by far and a way the best the club has ever had.
 
magic snood said:
Unfortunately we aren't a championship club though, why would we need to spend money covering the entire market? We're highly unlikely to be signing anybody from France/Spain/Germany/Italy etc because of work permits. As I said, we may have decided that it wasn't best use of budget, rather than the budget not being there at all.

Even the market leading companies today aren't huge operations, Statsbomb had 10 employees at the end of 2019 according to their accounts. Therefore it's perfectly feasible for us to develop our own model from scratch if we're hiring a dedicated data science/analysis team, it will just take time to develop and tweak as we go on, it's a long term project.
Click to expand...

The point about covering the entire market is that also includes all of the levels we are looking at too, we simply get tailored reports for our needs rather than re-inventing the wheel. It will take time to develop you say, I have no doubt it will.
 
kildaremackem said:
the DOF has never previously held that role anywhere in his life-he isnt respected in it as he has never held such a role before and so
cant have earned respect doing it.
The head of recruitment came from a championship club, just as his predescessor did.
The baodroom is by far and a way the best the club has ever had.
Click to expand...
From what I read of both mate they seemed well respected in the roles they held previously. This might be a step up for Speakman, but that's how careers work. Hopefully it works out for him here and he excels in his new role.
 

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