June 21st

Yellerish said:
Therein lies the problem, "crank" on this forum simply refers to anyone open to debate beyond the official line or who will consider other viewpoints and discussion points
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Disagree with this mind. There's a lot of shit thrown around on both sides from this board (I've disagreed with @Frijj myself in the past). But, I think frustration comes from the conspiracy theory tone of a lot of people.

Take the unlock delay - There's this idea that "they" want to keep us locked down forever, when "they" were the ones who didn't close our borders or put in place an effective quarantine system. The argument is just illogical.

With virus origins, we're clearly going around in circles.

If you want to challenge the official line, there's a couple of areas I can think of right away:
  • Vaccine supplies - The government has set ridiculously soft targets and the media has let them get away with it. They floated a story out last week about "supply issues" that the media ran with - proven now to be absolute bollocks. Now I'm seeing reports of the vaccine drive "speeding up" even though the stats suggest otherwise - why?
  • Nearly a year and half in, we still don't have the right support in place for those who can't afford to isolate or live on their own without family or friends to help. Nothing seems to be really being done to fix that either
  • Even after the Delta variant debacle, we don't seem to have made any changes to our rubbish quarantine setup for people arriving from other countries
Off the top of my head, there's three areas where real issues have been identified and it would be in our interest to improve. Funnily, I see very little discussion on here about any of them. If we want to actually learn from this pandemic, we need to look beyond conspiracy theories and towards the genuine issues the pandemic has caused.
 
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FulwellViaLeeds said:
Disagree with this mind. There's a lot of shit thrown around on both sides from this board (I've disagreed with @Frijj myself in the past). But, I think frustration comes from the conspiracy theory tone of a lot of people.

Take the unlock delay - There's this idea that "they" want to keep us locked down forever, when "they" were the ones who didn't close our borders or put in place an effective quarantine system. The argument is just illogical.

With virus origins, we're clearly going around in circles.

If you want to challenge the official line, there's a couple of areas I can think of right away:
  • Vaccine supplies - The government has set ridiculously soft targets and the media has let them get away with it. They floated a story out last week about "supply issues" that the media ran with - proven now to be absolute bollocks. Now I'm seeing reports of the vaccine drive "speeding up" even though the stats suggest otherwise - why?
  • Nearly a year and half in, we still don't have the right support in place for those who can't afford to isolate or live on their own without family or friends to help. Nothing seems to be really being done to fix that either
  • Even after the Delta variant debacle, we don't seem to have made any changes to our rubbish quarantine setup for people arriving from other countries
Off the top of my head, there's three areas where real issues have been identified and it would be in our interest to improve. Funnily, I see very little discussion on here about any of them. If we want to actually learn from this pandemic, we need to look beyond conspiracy theories and towards the genuine issues the pandemic has caused.
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Good post. Point 2 and 3 stand out for me.
 
FulwellViaLeeds said:
Disagree with this mind. There's a lot of shit thrown around on both sides from this board (I've disagreed with @Frijj myself in the past). But, I think frustration comes from the conspiracy theory tone of a lot of people.

Take the unlock delay - There's this idea that "they" want to keep us locked down forever, when "they" were the ones who didn't close our borders or put in place an effective quarantine system. The argument is just illogical.

With virus origins, we're clearly going around in circles.

If you want to challenge the official line, there's a couple of areas I can think of right away:
  • Vaccine supplies - The government has set ridiculously soft targets and the media has let them get away with it. They floated a story out last week about "supply issues" that the media ran with - proven now to be absolute bollocks. Now I'm seeing reports of the vaccine drive "speeding up" even though the stats suggest otherwise - why?
  • Nearly a year and half in, we still don't have the right support in place for those who can't afford to isolate or live on their own without family or friends to help. Nothing seems to be really being done to fix that either
  • Even after the Delta variant debacle, we don't seem to have made any changes to our rubbish quarantine setup for people arriving from other countries
Off the top of my head, there's three areas where real issues have been identified and it would be in our interest to improve. Funnily, I see very little discussion on here about any of them. If we want to actually learn from this pandemic, we need to look beyond conspiracy theories and towards the genuine issues the pandemic has caused.
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A reasoned reply, but how do we differentiate between the CT and the progressive mindset, as both can be termed "crank" by those with closed minds. it's a difficult balance to find and mantain.
 
Gelan said:
A reasoned reply, but how do we differentiate between the CT and the progressive mindset, as both can be termed "crank" by those with closed minds. it's a difficult balance to find and mantain.
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I think if you can back it up with reasonable logic then it's fair enough. Too often people believe the conspiracy theory first and then go looking for things that fit what they want to push, and ignore the stuff that doesn't.
 
FulwellViaLeeds said:
Disagree with this mind. There's a lot of shit thrown around on both sides from this board (I've disagreed with @Frijj myself in the past). But, I think frustration comes from the conspiracy theory tone of a lot of people.

Take the unlock delay - There's this idea that "they" want to keep us locked down forever, when "they" were the ones who didn't close our borders or put in place an effective quarantine system. The argument is just illogical.

With virus origins, we're clearly going around in circles.

If you want to challenge the official line, there's a couple of areas I can think of right away:
  • Vaccine supplies - The government has set ridiculously soft targets and the media has let them get away with it. They floated a story out last week about "supply issues" that the media ran with - proven now to be absolute bollocks. Now I'm seeing reports of the vaccine drive "speeding up" even though the stats suggest otherwise - why?
  • Nearly a year and half in, we still don't have the right support in place for those who can't afford to isolate or live on their own without family or friends to help. Nothing seems to be really being done to fix that either
  • Even after the Delta variant debacle, we don't seem to have made any changes to our rubbish quarantine setup for people arriving from other countries
Off the top of my head, there's three areas where real issues have been identified and it would be in our interest to improve. Funnily, I see very little discussion on here about any of them. If we want to actually learn from this pandemic, we need to look beyond conspiracy theories and towards the genuine issues the pandemic has caused.
Click to expand...
See, that's the approach to take to a discussion forum surely? Not within 3 posts turning it personal to try and discredit someone you've never met. There'll be a number of posters who appeared on here during Covid, started a thread which got derailed within the first page and then were subject to multiple pages of crap which meant they abandoned it. And if they dared to reappear, with another thread the previous thread would be thrown at them repeatedly

The easiest retort that goes on way too much is just to post "where's your evidence", "quote your data", "link to your sources", "I'm an expert mate". Well, guess what people have opinions, they see bits and bobs that interests them enough to see what others think. It doesnt mean they're stark raving mad conspiracy theorists

And your three points are valid ones. I don't want to harp on, lol, but..

point 1 - someone will be along to demand you link to sources and quotes and Hancock said yesterday there are no supply issues so there can't be
point 2 - doesn't apply to anyone on the SMB as every single member is very wealthy with incredible support systems in place (I do fear sometimes who really is on this forum who is struggling, and there will be many, I have been one - I/you/anyone wouldn't talk about it on here though, but where can you talk openly if not on one of the biggest regional forums around)
point 3 - people from other countries will surely be another bomb that goes off, probably this winter at the worst time. You could argue that the Delta variant is a bit of a hand rubbing godsend for Sage-alikes just to dampen down freedom enthusiasm - but you'd get hounded off again as a crank.

I really must hang the washing out you know, my prevarication skills have benefited enormously from the pandemic
 
I've been carrying on as normal, no masks, no social distancing, forgetting the rules since my first jab in the middle of April. I'm yet to get COVID. what a surprise.
 
scott934 said:
I think if you can back it up with reasonable logic then it's fair enough. Too often people believe the conspiracy theory first and then go looking for things that fit what they want to push, and ignore the stuff that doesn't.
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But it's a discussion forum, not a scientific community. Not every bleeding post has to be backed up by peer reviewed scientific evidence as is often demanded. Float summat and have a discussion.
 
Harry Angstrom said:
There is a theory that we are in a bubbling sea of universes that come into being and then die out.

There is a concept called a false vacuum. Water ends up in a vacuum (the sea) and until it does then it is held in a false vacuum. A reservoir looks stable but the wall has tremendous pressure on it. any crack in the wall unleashes all that pressure. So before the big bang all the mass in the universe today was in a false vacuum.

I don't fully understand it but it is interesting concept.
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Yep. And it’s an interesting theory and completely plausible. But ultimately there’s still a big question of “why?”. You can just say “it is what it is” but it would be good to know why this is the case. Why are there bubbling universes and not nothing. It’s very odd.

So my point would be ultimately when you get to the “why” question, that it all started out of nothing, or that it goes on forever etc are just as bizarre as a God or other creator.
 
haway said:
Yep. And it’s an interesting theory and completely plausible. But ultimately there’s still a big question of “why?”. You can just say “it is what it is” but it would be good to know why this is the case. Why are there bubbling universes and not nothing. It’s very odd.

So my point would be ultimately when you get to the “why” question, that it all started out of nothing, or that it goes on forever etc are just as bizarre as a God or other creator.
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The universe came from "nothing" but the multiverses are eternal, is the jist. (my jist)

As for why? does there need to be a reason?
 
Yellerish said:
But it's a discussion forum, not a scientific community. Not every bleeding post has to be backed up by peer reviewed scientific evidence as is often demanded. Float summat and have a discussion.
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I agree that abuse is the wrong reaction. For me it doesn't have to have peer reviewed evidence, but it does have to be logical.

I found the potential dangers of the mRNA vaccine thread interesting, and it was mostly civil from what I saw, despite being borderline conspiracy theory.
 
haway said:
Yep. And it’s an interesting theory and completely plausible. But ultimately there’s still a big question of “why?”. You can just say “it is what it is” but it would be good to know why this is the case. Why are there bubbling universes and not nothing. It’s very odd.

So my point would be ultimately when you get to the “why” question, that it all started out of nothing, or that it goes on forever etc are just as bizarre as a God or other creator.
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I will have my science website up and running soon, and there you will be able to find my answer to your question.
 
Yellerish said:
See, that's the approach to take to a discussion forum surely? Not within 3 posts turning it personal to try and discredit someone you've never met. There'll be a number of posters who appeared on here during Covid, started a thread which got derailed within the first page and then were subject to multiple pages of crap which meant they abandoned it. And if they dared to reappear, with another thread the previous thread would be thrown at them repeatedly

The easiest retort that goes on way too much is just to post "where's your evidence", "quote your data", "link to your sources", "I'm an expert mate". Well, guess what people have opinions, they see bits and bobs that interests them enough to see what others think. It doesnt mean they're stark raving mad conspiracy theorists

And your three points are valid ones. I don't want to harp on, lol, but..

point 1 - someone will be along to demand you link to sources and quotes and Hancock said yesterday there are no supply issues so there can't be
point 2 - doesn't apply to anyone on the SMB as every single member is very wealthy with incredible support systems in place (I do fear sometimes who really is on this forum who is struggling, and there will be many, I have been one - I/you/anyone wouldn't talk about it on here though, but where can you talk openly if not on one of the biggest regional forums around)
point 3 - people from other countries will surely be another bomb that goes off, probably this winter at the worst time. You could argue that the Delta variant is a bit of a hand rubbing godsend for Sage-alikes just to dampen down freedom enthusiasm - but you'd get hounded off again as a crank.

I really must hang the washing out you know, my prevarication skills have benefited enormously from the pandemic
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I agree about the abuse - it does go on too much and it's not right. And those are lazy responses too. But too many discussions on here with people are like banging your head against a brick wall. Sometimes you can make a reasonable point to someone and they'll just stick their fingers in their ears and fire back at you with more of the same. If you're going to come on here and throw an opinion that goes against the grain, you need to be willing to accept that you might be wrong, or that parts of your argument are, at least. I can't go on PF and say "I saw a FB post that KLD is going to keep us in League 1 to save money and I completely agree with it", blindly defend my viewpoint and then expect that people aren't going to call me all sorts and not bring it up again. It's the nature of messageboards. You need to either back your point up with a logical point or some kind of evidence. Covid or not.
 
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Gelan said:
Wow...I've just discovered "screen print" to make jpgs from ms word.

Give me two days đź‘Ť
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Gosh. You've just completely ruined the perception of you. That's as bad as posting "woohoo, I've just realised there's an undo function on my computer. I wonder if there's a function that will allow you to copy a portion of text and then paste it elsewhere. Wouldn't that be super"
FulwellViaLeeds said:
I agree about the abuse - it does go on too much and it's not right. And those are lazy responses too. But too many discussions on here with people are like banging your head against a brick wall. Sometimes you can make a reasonable point to someone and they'll just stick their fingers in their ears and fire back at you with more of the same. If you're going to come on here and throw an opinion that goes against the grain, you need to be willing to accept that you might be wrong, or that parts of your argument are, at least. I can't go on PF and say "I saw a FB post that KLD is going to keep us in League 1 to save money and I completely agree with it", blindly defend my viewpoint and then expect that people aren't going to call me all sorts and not bring it up again. It's the nature of messageboards. You need to either back your point up with a logical point or some kind of evidence. Covid or not.
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Admittedly, there are areas I tend to avoid. Politics is one. This sub forum another.

But, you could conceivably post that it is your opinion that KLD is going to save money by purposefully keeping us in League One. Which would be different. A debate may then ensue. Though it will be littered with mockery I guess. Or you could say I have seen it said that X Person's opinion is that KLD blah blah. Neither require "evidence". Merely opinions
 
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