Iran invading Israel

Hugh Gains said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1779829528233185348
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For a Tory Leader (I appreciate a very different one to the right of the party who are in charge these days) he's always been pretty critical of Isreal. He called Gaza a open aired prison when he was leader tbf, and has been relatively critical of them throughout this whole thing. Puts Sunak in a bit of a strange position, as he's neither able to criticise Cameron as he's too weak, but he's also too weak to defend him, as the right of his party will stamp down on it. So it allows Cameron to say what the fuck he wants, but also leaves Sunak himself having to side with Isreal on a lot of things.
 


HarrogateMackem said:
For a Tory Leader (I appreciate a very different one to the right of the party who are in charge these days) he's always been pretty critical of Isreal. He called Gaza a open aired prison when he was leader tbf, and has been relatively critical of them throughout this whole thing. Puts Sunak in a bit of a strange position, as he's neither able to criticise Cameron as he's too weak, but he's also too weak to defend him, as the right of his party will stamp down on it. So it allows Cameron to say what the fuck he wants, but also leaves Sunak himself having to side with Isreal on a lot of things.
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Sunak aligns with Israel because the west, predominately the US is materially beholden to them. I genuinely wonder why that is, the Israeli lobby is strong but the reasons go deeper and beyond that. It’s obvious when you look at it.

I personally see zero benefit of aligning with them and it’s also draws a certain parity to our treatment of Russia during the Ukraine conflict. At very worst I’d argue both conflicts are as bad each other but I’d be bold enough to state that anything Russia has done in Ukraine over 2 years pails in comparison to what Israel have subjected Gaza and the Palestinians to in 6 months. Yet we blindly support one cause and not the other, despite both being on the scales of depravity and brutality.

This coupled with Israel’s ‘tough’ approach essentially make the Middle East a hot spot and we get zero value out of it.
 
Hugh Gains said:
Sunak aligns with Israel because the west, predominately the US is materially beholden to them. I genuinely wonder why that is, the Israeli lobby is strong but the reasons go deeper and beyond that. It’s obvious when you look at it.

I personally see zero benefit of aligning with them and it’s also draws a certain parity to our treatment of Russia during the Ukraine conflict. At very worst I’d argue both conflicts are as bad each other but I’d be bold enough to state that anything Russia has done in Ukraine over 2 years pails in comparison to what Israel have subjected Gaza and the Palestinians to in 6 months. Yet we blindly support one cause and not the other, despite both being on the scales of depravity and brutality.

This coupled with Israel’s ‘tough’ approach essentially make the Middle East a hot spot and we get zero value out of it.
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For a long time the US valued Israel in that it kept its interests in the Red Sea trade route, and was a puppet in the area more generally. They were also able to filter money through Israel for various other causes in the area. Clearly, the Houthis have put a stop to that recently, and I'm not entirely sure what their material benefit right now is. However, I also think Iran (as BRIC member, and a close ally of China/ Russia) asserting dominance in the area would be awful for Western/ US imperialism, so they might be hoping that Isreal is able to temper them, without actually enflaming the war. Biden is also just been pro-Isreal his entire political career, to some extent it's just ideological.
 
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Hugh Gains said:
Sunak aligns with Israel because the west, predominately the US is materially beholden to them. I genuinely wonder why that is, the Israeli lobby is strong but the reasons go deeper and beyond that. It’s obvious when you look at it.

I personally see zero benefit of aligning with them and it’s also draws a certain parity to our treatment of Russia during the Ukraine conflict. At very worst I’d argue both conflicts are as bad each other but I’d be bold enough to state that anything Russia has done in Ukraine over 2 years pails in comparison to what Israel have subjected Gaza and the Palestinians to in 6 months. Yet we blindly support one cause and not the other, despite both being on the scales of depravity and brutality.

This coupled with Israel’s ‘tough’ approach essentially make the Middle East a hot spot and we get zero value out of it.
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i might be wrong but i cant remember ukraine invading russia and slautering innocent men woman and children.iran and russia are allies in this ,iran supplies russia with a lot of drones etc, its not hard to tell who is the aggressor and who is in the right,iran want to remove israel and russia want to remove ukraine. how are we in the wrong for backing both ukraine and israel.
 
HarrogateMackem said:
For a Tory Leader (I appreciate a very different one to the right of the party who are in charge these days) he's always been pretty critical of Isreal. He called Gaza an open aired prison when he was leader tbf, and has been relatively critical of them throughout this whole thing. Puts Sunak in a bit of a strange position, as he's neither able to criticise Cameron as he's too weak, but he's also too weak to defend him, as the right of his party will stamp down on it. So it allows Cameron to say what the fuck he wants, but also leaves Sunak himself having to side with Isreal on a lot of things.
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It’s outrageous that we are supporting a barbaric state like Israel; there are no excuses. I also condemn Kier Starmer for not taking our government to task over this issue.
 
HarrogateMackem said:
For a Tory Leader (I appreciate a very different one to the right of the party who are in charge these days) he's always been pretty critical of Isreal. He called Gaza a open aired prison when he was leader tbf, and has been relatively critical of them throughout this whole thing. Puts Sunak in a bit of a strange position, as he's neither able to criticise Cameron as he's too weak, but he's also too weak to defend him, as the right of his party will stamp down on it. So it allows Cameron to say what the fuck he wants, but also leaves Sunak himself having to side with Isreal on a lot of things.
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You're over-analysing it.

Here's what Cameron said after the cut:

"I would argue there is a massive degree of difference between what Israel did in Damascus and, as I said, 301 weapons being launched by the state of Iran at the state of Israel.

"For the first time a state-on-state attack, 101 ballistic missiles, 36 cruise missiles, 185 drones, that is a degree of difference and I think a reckless and dangerous thing for Iran to have done.

"And I think the whole world can see, all these countries that have somehow wondered, well, you know, what is the true nature of Iran? It's there in black and white."
 
I know all this comes across as very Gareth from the office but I'm guessing the yanks have the hardware to do some serious damage down there at a moments notice?

I'm guessing safe in the knowledge nobody would be daft enough to do a direct attack on there fleet either
 
Baloo said:
Have they invaded?
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They attacked and it’s not over just yet
redandwhiterob said:
I know all this comes across as very Gareth from the office but I'm guessing the yanks have the hardware to do some serious damage down there at a moments notice?

I'm guessing safe in the knowledge nobody would be daft enough to do a direct attack on there fleet either
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They would love Iran or Russia to attack one of there fleet
 
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HarrogateMackem said:
For a long time the US valued Israel in that it kept its interests in the Red Sea trade route, and was a puppet in the area more generally. They were also able to filter money through Israel for various other causes in the area. Clearly, the Houthis have put a stop to that recently, and I'm not entirely sure what their material benefit right now is. However, I also think Iran (as BRIC member, and a close ally of China/ Russia) asserting dominance in the area would be awful for Western/ US imperialism, so they might be hoping that Isreal is able to temper them, without actually enflaming the war. Biden is also just been pro-Isreal his entire political career, to some extent it's just ideological.
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The most politicised voting demographic in the US are the evangelical Christian’s and the Jews, both of whom are pro Israel.

The republican support base is the evangelical Christian’s. 70% of Jewish voters favour democrats.

AIPAC (pro Israel lobby group) has huge influence on congress and provides significant campaign contributions to politicians with pro Israel views.
 
safcforever said:
They attacked and it’s not over just yet

They would love Iran or Russia to attack one of there fleet
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Bearing in mind that Russia has the Zircon hypersonic missiles (something that nobody in the West has) I'm not especially sure they would. Also the Houthis have stopped the American fleet in the red sea currently, causing immeasurable losses to trade for the west, with drones that can be bought on Amazon ffs.

We're in a different form of warfare at the moment, and I'm not all that sure how well America is prepared for it. So I'm not entirely sure they will be willing on any fight.
 
Seaham_FTM said:
I think saying they would love it if their fleet was attacked is a bit off marra.
They would respond in a big way... there's nee doubting that
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They would respond in a big way if a third country attacked one of their diplomatic compounds........

Deckchair said:
The most politicised voting demographic in the US are the evangelical Christian’s and the Jews, both of whom are pro Israel.
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And both support Israel for entirely different, and ultimately conflicting, reasons.
 
Deckchair said:
The most politicised voting demographic in the US are the evangelical Christian’s and the Jews, both of whom are pro Israel.

The republican support base is the evangelical Christian’s. 70% of Jewish voters favour democrats.

AIPAC (pro Israel lobby group) has huge influence on congress and provides significant campaign contributions to politicians with pro Israel views.
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Sure, but there are also strategic benefits to the relationship.
 

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