I Daniel Blake

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look out piano said:
The old system works just fine for me, weekly payments to match with my weekly wages (think housing benefit is paid fortnightly directly to Gentoo). I read this morning that Amber Rudd has delayed the vote on the next stage of the UC rollout, they're going to vote instead on transferring 10,000 claimants in some kind of pilot scheme (where it's impact / findings can be monitored more closely).
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The old system did work fine for everyone far from it, especially those going from under and below 16 hours had to sign off and on each time.
 


look out piano said:
It's never really been worthwhile for anyone to work under 16 hrs though surely ?
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Under the old system no that’s the point, as you could not get tax credits until reached 16 hours.

Under UC hours are irrevlant just earnings and changes each month depending on earnings.

The earnings disregards under UC for anyone working under 16 hours are higher than they were on Income Support or Jobseekers Allowance for example.
 
Arkle said:
It's madness. The emphasis is so much on insuring that people who aren't entitled to receive something don't do so that those who should are knocked back by pages of form filling.
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It would seem as if the whole world is full of people who feel entitled to pick on other people who they don't feel are entitled, despite the fact that those who feel entitled do not, and are very unlikely to ever need help.

ChrisK said:
For every one genuine claimant there are probably 20 others who are ripping the system off one way or another, think if the general public could see how much money is paid to the work shy fraudsters, it would boil your piss tbh
The country has dug itself into a hole with the benefit system, we have way to many different types we even have some benefits still in play which were introduced for orphans in the 2nd world war, this is now usually paid to the victims of crime typically gang or drug dealers who have been killed or in prison. Mental really the quicker we get to a 1 benefit system that works the better.
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This is total bollocks. Of course there are some who are, but nothing like in the ratio that you describe. Of course those numbers could reach near those proportions if you take into account those who fiddle their taxes instead of being on other benefits.

I Stand Alone said:
It's not just regarding this thread. He has a general air of prickliness.


Or the intellect.
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I think you'll find that he certainly has. Trying to write off his arguments with insults is the sign of someone with no cogent argument to supply.
 
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ChrisK said:
For every one genuine claimant there are probably 20 others who are ripping the system off one way or another, think if the general public could see how much money is paid to the work shy fraudsters, it would boil your piss tbh
The country has dug itself into a hole with the benefit system, we have way to many different types we even have some benefits still in play which were introduced for orphans in the 2nd world war, this is now usually paid to the victims of crime typically gang or drug dealers who have been killed or in prison. Mental really the quicker we get to a 1 benefit system that works the better.
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Quite literally the opposite. It's around 6% who are found to be fraudulently claiming benefits.
 
The amount of benefits which go unclaimed absolutely dwarfs the amount of benefits which are fraudulently claimed. And both of these figures are microscopic when compared with the amount evaded in tax by the rich. But no, certain people have to fall for the Tories’ (and to be fair, New Labour’s) trap of pitting the poorest off against each other. Divide and rule, and we’re a big enough set of muppets to swallow it.

And don’t get me started on Universal Credit, an absolute shambles from start to presumably an early finish, where thousands are worse off and the whole system is costing more to administer than it did before. The sanctions also cost more to administer than is saved in benefits not paid to those sanctioned, so it is certainly an ideological decision to fuck the poor, no matter the cost.

millfield ftm said:
Try and watch the BBC play , the black stuff, fore runner to the series , it shows how it all went wrong fot them , yosser trying to rip off some gypos in Boro
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Will do, thanks mate.
 
Good Bloke Fairly said:
Quite literally the opposite. It's around 6% who are found to be fraudulently claiming benefits.
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I do think it’s more than that in reality though, obviously no where near the ratio of the poster you are quoting.

However the 6% is of the people found to be fraudulent, which imo is different from who is actually fraudulent.

I mean if only 6% of drivers are caught speeding it does not mean the other 94% are always driving within the limit!
 
In 2015-16, total spending on benefits was £172.3bn, of which £1.9bn (1.1%) was fraudulently claimed.

The latest figures I could find for tax evasion and avoidance are from 2013-14; they show that tax evasion and tax avoidance costs the government £34 billion a year.
 
matt228 said:
In 2015-16, total spending on benefits was £172.3bn, of which £1.9bn (1.1%) was fraudulently claimed.

The latest figures I could find for tax evasion and avoidance are from 2013-14; they show that tax evasion and tax avoidance costs the government £34 billion a year.
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It confuses why the two have be compared ? This argument is always rolled out as if to defend benefit fraud.

Why can’t we just say they both wrong, but obviously have tax evasion as a higher priority as it’s costing the country more?
 
Voice of fair play said:
I do think it’s more than that in reality though, obviously no where near the ratio of the poster you are quoting.

However the 6% is of the people found to be fraudulent, which imo is different from who is actually fraudulent.

I mean if only 6% of drivers are caught speeding it does not mean the other 94% are always driving within the limit!
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Aye I can understand where you're coming from to a degree but that can probably be countered by the % of people who have their benefits stopped for next to nothing
 
matt228 said:
That is exactly what I am saying. We agree. :D
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That’s fine mate, but too many don’t condem benefit fraud and just defend it with the tax argument

For me they two entirely diffrent things which are both wrong.

Good Bloke Fairly said:
Aye I can understand where you're coming from to a degree but that can probably be countered by the % of people who have their benefits stopped for next to nothing
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Well what I cannot understand is people failing to attend apppointments, I read recently that 70% of sanctions is for people under 30 failing to attend their apppointment.

If you knew they was a possibility of a sanction you would turn up surely?

I know there has been some unfair sanctions but also loads where people just don’t turn up!
 
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ChrisK said:
For every one genuine claimant there are probably 20 others who are ripping the system off one way or another
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95% of benefit claims are fraudulent? You'd better let the daily mail know, they'd love to unearth that national scandal.
 
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