England v New Zealand, Lords (2nd June) Match Thread

The Rat said:
:lol:

aye Pope not the answer at 3, had so so many chances in the team!

TBH I like Bairstow at 6 or 7, never really said he is a top order player!

Just think he gets unfair criticism, so always stick up for him

averaged 35 since 2015, which is not bad compared to the rest!

Deserves a long run in the side for me.


What is this board's reaction if the team for the South Africa series is

Crawley
Buttler
Livingstone
Root
Brook
Stokes (C)
Bairstow (WK)
Ali
Potts
Broad
Anderson

Its ridiculous, but part of me also wants to see it happen :lol:
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Aye, they will not go that far, but they certainly looking to be more attacking.

Let’s face it something needed to change, and a Key, McCullum, Stokes combination will be change for good and it will definitely be entertaining!

It may work it may not been more attacking, but what is for certain what the test team has done for the last 2 years clearly has not worked.

So is in time to be more positive and see what happens why not.

I certainly would not be surprised if somewhere along the line Buttler and Livingstone are given a go in the side, but it certainly will not be 2 or 3😀
 
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Voice of fair play said:
Aye, they will not go that far, but they certainly looking to be more attacking.

Let’s face it something needed to change, and a Key, McCullum, Stokes combination will be change for good and it will definitely be entertaining!

It may work it may not been more attacking, but what is for certain what the test team has done for the last 2 years clearly has not worked.

So is in time to be more positive and see what happens why not.

I certainly would not be surprised if somewhere along the line Buttler and Livingstone are given a go in the side, but it certainly will not be 2 or 3😀
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I think it's worth bearing in mind that Stokes has already complained about the "ridiculous" workload of those who play both formats and that we now have separate red and white ball coaches each of whom will have their own ideas about their strongest teams. Clearly there has to be some compromise which, I think, will result in very few players being selected for both formats. Doubt we'll see Livingstone play test cricket and Buttler only in an injury crisis. As to either of them opening,that'll be suicidal cricket rather than brighter cricket.
Dan Lawrence did OK in the WIndies and would, I suspect, have been selected at 3 had he not been injured.
 
Parkside said:
I think it's worth bearing in mind that Stokes has already complained about the "ridiculous" workload of those who play both formats and that we now have separate red and white ball coaches each of whom will have their own ideas about their strongest teams. Clearly there has to be some compromise which, I think, will result in very few players being selected for both formats. Doubt we'll see Livingstone play test cricket and Buttler only in an injury crisis. As to either of them opening,that'll be suicidal cricket rather than brighter cricket.
Dan Lawrence did OK in the WIndies and would, I suspect, have been selected at 3 had he not been injured.
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You might be right but McCullum specifcally brought them 2 players up in one of his few press conferences

so he clearly is thinking about it
 
The Rat said:
You might be right but McCullum specifcally brought them 2 players up in one of his few press conferences

so he clearly is thinking about it
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He did but I doubt he'd realised he has a fellow coach (white ball) to appease.
I also think the riches of franchise cricket are too appealing to them, Livingstone particularly.
 
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Parkside said:
Didn't know that.
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I think you’re probs right in your original point btw, just thought it was Intersting he brought them up

Livingstone I’ve resisted but he’s an intriguing player as he has some history of being a decent top order red ball player, he’s just not done it for years. I mean he’d probs score more than Pope
 
The Rat said:
I think you’re probs right in your original point btw, just thought it was Intersting he brought them up

Livingstone I’ve resisted but he’s an intriguing player as he has some history of being a decent top order red ball player, he’s just not done it for years. I mean he’d probs score more than Pope
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I think livingstone deserves a chance at some point, if he is available for red ball stuff

i feel that with pope, he has talent clearly but the overseas bowlers have him on toast currently and especially the world class attack we are facing

there has to be an opportunity for others as pope has been given. He can comeback but if he does retain his spot and fails in this series, surely someone needs to replace him
 
Ghfd said:
I think livingstone deserves a chance at some point, if he is available for red ball stuff

i feel that with pope, he has talent clearly but the overseas bowlers have him on toast currently and especially the world class attack we are facing

there has to be an opportunity for others as pope has been given. He can comeback but if he does retain his spot and fails in this series, surely someone needs to replace him
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I wouldn’t say he deserves it, as he’s not scored any runs. But I’d not be against giving him a go. He does feel like another 5 or 6 mind. Although he used to bat 3 for lancs

Yeah pope looks nervy as out. Just can’t see him scoring runs

Suspect Lawrence is next in line though for top order
 
The Rat said:
I wouldn’t say he deserves it, as he’s not scored any runs. But I’d not be against giving him a go. He does feel like another 5 or 6 mind. Although he used to bat 3 for lancs

Yeah pope looks nervy as out. Just can’t see him scoring runs

Suspect Lawrence is next in line though for top order
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I've often thought that if whatever someone bats in their County they should bat lower in the Test match, other thought is we ought to look for a County opener as a Test no 3.

The rule doesn't always work of course, it's just a general thought and the trouble with picking an opener as a number 3 is that at present we can't (or have extreme difficulty) find a county opener fit to open in the Test side.
 
Parkside said:
I think it's worth bearing in mind that Stokes has already complained about the "ridiculous" workload of those who play both formats and that we now have separate red and white ball coaches each of whom will have their own ideas about their strongest teams. Clearly there has to be some compromise which, I think, will result in very few players being selected for both formats. Doubt we'll see Livingstone play test cricket and Buttler only in an injury crisis. As to either of them opening,that'll be suicidal cricket rather than brighter cricket.
Dan Lawrence did OK in the WIndies and would, I suspect, have been selected at 3 had he not been injured.
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Yeah surely nobody and I mean nobody would ever consider opening with them in test cricket, if they did they would want their head examined.

But would not be surprised if they did not get a go, obviously further down the order somewhere down the line.

As they certainly world class players in other format, so got a feeling McCullum would at least want a look himself to see if he has the ability to improve them at test level, as surely there is no doubt if he did they would be a massive assist to the team, granted it’s a big if and a risk, but a risk he may and suspect he wants to at least try?
 
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Voice of fair play said:
Yeah surely nobody and I mean nobody would ever consider opening with them in test cricket, if they did they would want their head examined.

But would not be surprised if they did not get a go, obviously further down the order somewhere down the line.

As they certainly world class players in other format, so got a feeling McCullum would at least want a look himself to see if he has the ability to improve them at test level, be as surely there is no doubt if he did they would be a massive assist to the team, granted it’s a big if and a risk, but a risk he may at least try?
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I honestly wouldnt rule it out like with McCullum.
The thing is, although I would not do it, we've tried almost every opener and only 1 averaged over 30, and even then that was just 30 and he got like 7 ducks in a year

They will be thinking, could Buttler or Livingstone really do worse
Bri said:
I've often thought that if whatever someone bats in their County they should bat lower in the Test match, other thought is we ought to look for a County opener as a Test no 3.

The rule doesn't always work of course, it's just a general thought and the trouble with picking an opener as a number 3 is that at present we can't (or have extreme difficulty) find a county opener fit to open in the Test side.
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Yeah I kind of agree

I said the other day, and some didnt agree, that Brook needs to bat 3 for Yorkshire, He has been batting mostly at 6, which just does not prepare you for test cricket whatsoever.

That would make him more prepared to bat 5 for England. Batting against the old soft ball on flat pitches against bowlers below 80mph in their 4th spells has absolutely no relevance to test cricket

its why people need to not get carried away with Brook and actually look at when he scored his runs,not just his average.
 
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The Rat said:
I honestly wouldnt rule it out like with McCullum.
The thing is, although I would not do it, we've tried almost every opener and only 1 averaged over 30, and even then that was just 30 and he got like 7 ducks in a year

They will be thinking, could Buttler or Livingstone really do worse


Yeah I kind of agree

I said the other day, and some didnt agree, that Brook needs to bat 3 for Yorkshire, He has been batting mostly at 6, which just does not prepare you for test cricket whatsoever.

That would make him more prepared to bat 5 for England. Batting against the old soft ball on flat pitches against bowlers below 80mph in their 4th spells has absolutely no relevance to test cricket

its why people need to not get carried away with Brook and actually look at when he scored his runs,not just his average.
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There is no way on earth Livingstone or Buttler would ever open for a test team (excluding a short final day chase)

I am probably the most advocate of attacking cricket on here but would never think they should open and don’t think it will ever happen.

Roy opening was a terrible decision and similar will never be repeated and neither should it be.

But like I say I reckon they will get a go in the side at some point if they want it!
 
Voice of fair play said:
There is no way on earth Livingstone or Buttler would ever open for a test team (excluding a short final day chase)

I am probably the most advocate of attacking cricket on here but would never think they should open and don’t think it will ever happen.

Roy opening was a terrible decision and similar will never be repeated and neither should it be.

But like I say I reckon they will get a go in the side at some point if they want it!
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You know inside McCullum’s head like? You seem pretty sure about something you have absolutely no say over
Voice of fair play said:
There is no way on earth Livingstone or Buttler would ever open for a test team (excluding a short final day chase)

I am probably the most advocate of attacking cricket on here but would never think they should open and don’t think it will ever happen.

Roy opening was a terrible decision and similar will never be repeated and neither should it be.

But like I say I reckon they will get a go in the side at some point if they want it!
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You know inside McCullum’s head like? You seem pretty sure about something you have absolutely no say over
 
The Rat said:
Btw on those Indian pitches there’s absolutely no way we were better opening with burns n sibley than Livingstone and co

They were basically one day games
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No argument with me there mate as I would not open with Sibley in any game anywhere😆

Actually I probably would if we were leading a series going into a final test and a draw would be good enough, he would be perfect for that!

Seriously yeah take your point pick players based on the pitches.

Personally would not have picked a spinner on either side last test match.
 
What has got to mitigate against Buttler and Livingstone,in particular,is how little red ball cricket they play at domestic level. Buttler has played very little of it in the past 3 years ,Livingstone about 12 games in that period and hasn't recorded a 50. IPL commitments will continue to prevent them from doing so in the foreseeable future. I just don't believe you can transfer white ball skills to red at the flick of a switch. Barstow claimed he could pre-test,I think his batting in both innings showed he was still in T20 mode. That's not a dig at him @therat, simply a valid observation.
I'd said earlier I believed he should be in the team but expressed reservations about him coming in cold.
 
The Rat said:
I honestly wouldnt rule it out like with McCullum.
The thing is, although I would not do it, we've tried almost every opener and only 1 averaged over 30, and even then that was just 30 and he got like 7 ducks in a year

They will be thinking, could Buttler or Livingstone really do worse


Yeah I kind of agree

I said the other day, and some didnt agree, that Brook needs to bat 3 for Yorkshire, He has been batting mostly at 6, which just does not prepare you for test cricket whatsoever.

That would make him more prepared to bat 5 for England. Batting against the old soft ball on flat pitches against bowlers below 80mph in their 4th spells has absolutely no relevance to test cricket

its why people need to not get carried away with Brook and actually look at when he scored his runs,not just his average.
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I totally get your point but I was at the Roses T20 the other week and I know it's a different format but Brooks just oozed class, looked so calm, composed, the game just looked easy for him. Sure we'll see his test credentials at some point this summer.

To go off on a bit of a tangent I'm surprised to see Parkinson played for Lancs tonight, do we read anything into that for the team on Friday? Or nothing more than Leach is available so he'll play ahead of Parkinson?
 
mikemanc said:
I totally get your point but I was at the Roses T20 the other week and I know it's a different format but Brooks just oozed class, looked so calm, composed, the game just looked easy for him. Sure we'll see his test credentials at some point this summer.

To go off on a bit of a tangent I'm surprised to see Parkinson played for Lancs tonight, do we read anything into that for the team on Friday? Or nothing more than Leach is available so he'll play ahead of Parkinson?
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Yeah I like the lad, wasnt a criticism of him, its more that for him to be ready needs testing against county bowlers at their best

will only help him
 

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