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England v India - Third Test, 10/07

rentaghost said:
I really don’t agree with any of that (fighting hard to be respectful 🤣) it’s not about how fast you bowl or how aesthetically pleasing you are it’s your skill set. I loved watching Shoiab bowl and Brett Lee but they are not even vaguely comparable and not on the same stratosphere as Bumrah imo.
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That's fine mate. Differing opinions and that.

A couple of questions tgough. If you don't mind indulging me.

What is all about Skill set? And according to whom?

Why are you having to fight to stay respectful? It's not that big of a deal. Relax.

Why is Warne considered far superior to Murali by many cricket connoisseus? Even though the latter had better stats.
Spirit of the game. I see you sidestepped that part of my post. Two wrongs don't make a right. Yes Shohibs arm was hyperextetended just like Bumrah. But I'm not making wild excitable statements like Lee and Shohib not on same stratosphere as Bumrah. Shows your young age that I'm afraid.
 
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PallionLad said:
That's fine mate. Differing opinions and that.

A couple of questions tgough. If you don't mind indulging me.

What is all about Skill set? And according to whom?

Why are you having to fight to stay respectful? It's not that big of a deal. Relax.

Why is Warne considered far superior to Murali by many cricket connoisseus? Even though the latter had better stats.
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Skill set - for Bumrah it would be by having the ability to bowl fast, move if both ways at pace, sometimes the direction of movement planned through conventional or reverse swing, sometimes by using a wobble seam. For say Brett Lee it would be to bowl fast. One bowler has a far bigger skill set and is a far better bowler.

I’m not sure I get your point re Warne and Murali. Two of the greatest we have seen and think most recognise that.
 
Sea to Shining Sea said:
Shoaib’s action was arguably far more suss than Bumrah. Bumrah seems to have a natural hyperextension whereas Shoaib’s action was slightly more bent arm / chuck
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Not sure on your point. 2 wrongs don't make a right.
Have you got any sources to back that up? Or is it just your subjective eyes?

I love how you picked up one names actions and compared that to Bumrah. Why didn't you compare it to the plethora of other great fast bowlers named in this thread?

I don't rate Bumrah as high as others who have gone before him. Not in my top 30. Not sure why that would aggregate some people?
 
Ghfd said:
Nope. It’s a standard reply from you in its clever and smug way


“I see a lot of suggestion that India are purposely time wasting. For what reason? It's not like they are well behind the game, in danger currently or trying to hang on for a draw”

Purposely time wasting it states as clear as day

That implies you don’t think it’s happening at all

For once accept you made an error like everyone does, especially me

I have no expectation you will as you will post something subtlely insulting

IVe read you for nigh on 20 years now and know the style

You dish out subtle insults then never accept the return

I expect the usual suspects to back you up of course

Good night. You didn’t half have a good time insulting me with football fan rubbish

No further comment to you and I suggest you put me on ignore as well
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I asked people to give reasons why they'd be time wasting.

You offeed nowt and flew in with the argumentative response.

Best leave it, or you'll be back off again, lip dangling, with toys scattered all over and playing the victim (noted your 'I expect others to back you up' as if that's a pile on... people can pull people up when they are talking rubbish without it being a pile on. You know this though already).

I don't put people on ignore. Because I'm not a bairn who can't handle other people's opinions. However, you did say you had me on ignore. Obviously a fib. Just like when you ask people to move on from something then bring it back. I suggest you do actually put me on ignore if you can't resist being a little blurt.

Right, as i said last time, lets stick to the cricket. Lets see if you can manage it, at the third time of asking.
 
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rentaghost said:
Skill set - for Bumrah it would be by having the ability to bowl fast, move if both ways at pace, sometimes the direction of movement planned through conventional or reverse swing, sometimes by using a wobble seam. For say Brett Lee it would be to bowl fast. One bowler has a far bigger skill set and is a far better bowler.

I’m not sure I get your point re Warne and Murali. Two of the greatest we have seen and think most recognise that.
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I'm sorry but you're not making any sense. In my last reply to me you wrote "it’s not about how fast you bowl or how aesthetically pleasing you are it’s your skill set"

So my question is what is this 'about' that you are you referring to and who made these set of rules that you are alluding to?
I am well aware of many skills that a fast bowler should have in his armoury, but I'm curious to why you only include a couple.

Regarding Warne vs Murali. If
you had to only choose one in your team? who would you pick? The all-star leggie? Or the one with the suspect action that they had to change the laws of the game to allow to play.
 
PallionLad said:
That's fine mate. Differing opinions and that.

A couple of questions tgough. If you don't mind indulging me.

What is all about Skill set? And according to whom?

Why are you having to fight to stay respectful? It's not that big of a deal. Relax.

Why is Warne considered far superior to Murali by many cricket connoisseus? Even though the latter had better stats.
Spirit of the game. I see you sidestepped that part of my post. Two wrongs don't make a right. Yes Shohibs arm was hyperextetended just like Bumrah. But I'm not making wild excitable statements like Lee and Shohib not on same stratosphere as Bumrah. Shows your young age that I'm afraid.
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Like you say it’s all about opinions and Burmah up there with the very best and is recognized as such by most imo
 
Voice of fair play said:
Like you say it’s all about opinions and Burmah up there with the very best and is recognized as such by most imo
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Agreed.

Its funny though how in some peoples eyes this looks ok, and to others just wrong and not in the spirit of the game.

Logon or register to see this image


Sorry for this random pic, but I forgot to post it last night when talking about one eye pricks
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PallionLad said:
Agreed.

Its funny though how in some peoples eyes this looks ok, and to others just wrong and not in the spirit of the game.

Logon or register to see this image


Sorry for this random pic, but I forgot to post it last night when talking about one eye pricks
Logon or register to see this image
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Why do you think that looks illegal though? To throw you need to bend it then straighten it dont you? I'm not saying he doesn't, and his action does draw attention, but that pic certainly doesn't suggest any wrong doing at all.
 
PallionLad said:
Not sure on your point. 2 wrongs don't make a right.
Have you got any sources to back that up? Or is it just your subjective eyes?

I love how you picked up one names actions and compared that to Bumrah. Why didn't you compare it to the plethora of other great fast bowlers named in this thread?

I don't rate Bumrah as high as others who have gone before him. Not in my top 30. Not sure why that would aggregate some people?
Click to expand...

I picked up Shoaib because you put him up as an example of being the pinnacle of fast bowling and left Bumrah out on the grounds of having a suspect action.

It wasn’t just my subjective eyes no. Akhtar was reported many a time to the ICC and was suspended.

I’m not aggravated by your opinion, just offering a counter argument. It’s a forum.
 
PallionLad said:
I'm sorry but you're not making any sense. In my last reply to me you wrote "it’s not about how fast you bowl or how aesthetically pleasing you are it’s your skill set"

So my question is what is this 'about' that you are you referring to and who made these set of rules that you are alluding to?
I am well aware of many skills that a fast bowler should have in his armoury, but I'm curious to why you only include a couple.

Regarding Warne vs Murali. If
you had to only choose one in your team? who would you pick? The all-star leggie? Or the one with the suspect action that they had to change the laws of the game to allow to play.
Click to expand...
Ah my apologies. I felt you needed the relative skill sets of the two players on the basis that you perhaps didn’t understand them leading to your view that Brett Lee is a better fast bowler than him. In my view the skill sets of the two players lead to the substantially better statistics that Bumrah has. He’s a far better bowler.
Murali v Warne. If you are suggesting that some people prefer Warne due to Murali’s action you are probably right. I disagree with them, they are both all time greats I would probably lean towards Murali as his record is better, Warnes poor record in India and not having to bowl against one of the best batting line ups in history gives Murali the edge for me. Close call though. Many will disagree purely on cricketing reasons rather than their respective actions.
 
Sea to Shining Sea said:
I picked up Shoaib because you put him up as an example of being the pinnacle of fast bowling and left Bumrah out on the grounds of having a suspect action.

It wasn’t just my subjective eyes no. Akhtar was reported many a time to the ICC and was suspended.

I’m not aggravated by your opinion, just offering a counter argument. It’s a forum.
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Shoaib was a decent fast bowler. No where the all time list imo.

He just wanted to bowl fast, wasn't bothered about nuances or seam and swing. Very similar to Shaun Tait for me.
 
Nasser Butt-Head said:
Shoaib was a decent fast bowler. No where the all time list imo.

He just wanted to bowl fast, wasn't bothered about nuances or seam and swing. Very similar to Shaun Tait for me.
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He was something to behold watching live. The run up and the fireworks were great theatre. Of the bowlers I’ve seen live, it was him and Warne that were total box office.

But as you say, as far as being an all time great bowler with a skill set to bowl good lines, lengths, variations etc, Akhtar (and Lee) probably don’t get on my list.
 
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mackembhoy said:
It doesn't just external injuries.

So basically pretty much only applies if the ball causes an injury.
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Seems harsh. No issue on the Pant situation and also agree that if they allowed it for illness it would get abused by players. I suppose muscle strain situations could lead to players taking the piss also.
Sea to Shining Sea said:
He was something to behold watching live. The run up and the fireworks were great theatre. Of the bowlers I’ve seen live, it was him and Warne that were total box office.

But as you say, as far as being an all time great bowler with a skill set to be bowl good lines, lengths, variations etc, Akhtar (and Lee) probably don’t get on my list.
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This is my view also. I saw Shoaib at Durham get 4 wickets in an over (I think) against Somerset at Durham. Long run, sweating profusely and stumps flying everywhere. He was box office.
 
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rentaghost said:
Seems harsh. No issue on the Pant situation and also agree that if they allowed it for illness it would get abused by players. I suppose muscle strain situations could lead to players taking the piss also.

This is my view also. I saw Shoaib at Durham get 4 wickets in an over (I think) against Somerset at Durham. Long run, sweating profusely and stumps flying everywhere. He was box office.
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Yep. I was at that game but I think it was Middlesex as I remember Strauss batting. IIRC, peak Harmison may have opened at the other end. Unpleasant for an opener that :lol:

Edit: I may be conflating two games here
 
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rentaghost said:
I really don’t agree with any of that (fighting hard to be respectful 🤣) it’s not about how fast you bowl or how aesthetically pleasing you are it’s your skill set. I loved watching Shoiab bowl and Brett Lee but they are not even vaguely comparable and not on the same stratosphere as Bumrah imo.
Click to expand...
rentaghost said:
Skill set - for Bumrah it would be by having the ability to bowl fast, move if both ways at pace, sometimes the direction of movement planned through conventional or reverse swing, sometimes by using a wobble seam. For say Brett Lee it would be to bowl fast. One bowler has a far bigger skill set and is a far better bowler.

I’m not sure I get your point re Warne and Murali. Two of the greatest we have seen and think most recognise that.
Click to expand...
To say Bumrah is a 'far better bowler' than Shoaib and Lee and that they aren't in 'the same stratosphere' is nonsense and is just recency bias.
 
Sea to Shining Sea said:
He was something to behold watching live. The run up and the fireworks were great theatre. Of the bowlers I’ve seen live, it was him and Warne that were total box office.

But as you say, as far as being an all time great bowler with a skill set to bowl good lines, lengths, variations etc, Akhtar (and Lee) probably don’t get on my list.
Click to expand...
Thought Alan Donald had a bit of the box office too - the Atherton face off was brilliant to watch.
 
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