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England in NZ

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mackembhoy said:
We know the weakness of our bowlers with the kookaburra.

The batsman need to try and tire out the opposition bowlers, like they do to ours when we play away

I mean our bowlers actually started well having them 130/4. But they got tired as the ball got old, unsurprisingly.
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Felt for them. They weren't backed up by the field (Yes, I know Sibley's was a worldie, but Stokes has to catch Watling - games are won and lost on such moments), the spinner (dire) or the captain.

You need relief from your spinner on pitches like that. They got none. Think Root looked more dangerous tbh, which is worrying for Leach because when Root outbowls spinners, he usually pulls the trigger.

Think they'll be begging Ali back for South Africa, not least because they can lengthen the inevitable Anderson-Broad-Archer tail.
 
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Comeback_Kenwyne said:
Felt for them. They weren't backed up by the field (Yes, I know Sibley's was a worldie, but Stokes has to catch Watling - games are won and lost on such moments), the spinner (dire) or the captain.

You need relief from your spinner on pitches like that. They got none. Think Root looked more dangerous tbh, which is worrying for Leach because when Root outbowls spinners, he usually pulls the trigger.

Think they'll be begging Ali back for South Africa, not least because they can lengthen the inevitable Anderson-Broad-Archer tail.
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Just don't think Jack Leach is a good international spin bowler, nice enough guy, just not up to it imo.
 
Voice of fair play said:
Just don't think Jack Leach is a good international spin bowler, nice enough guy, just not up to it imo.
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Agree.

He's certainly not good enough a spinner to be batting in the positions 9-11 and his test batting is currently flattered by the fact team's are only just starting to work out he's hopeless against spin bowling. But New Zealand took only two innings to work it out, Australia three tests, so it's happening.

You could even look at characters like Bess if you want a competitor who could grow into a defensive bowling, number eight position. But for me Ali is still obviously the best and it's Silverwood's job to find a way of coaxing constituency out of him. It's criminal really that he gets cast aside - he's one of our very few genuine matchwinners. If you look at the last five years of cricket, he's probably turned more games of cricket for England than any player we have, though Stokes' last twelve months might have taken him past now.
 
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Comeback_Kenwyne said:
Agree.

He's certainly not good enough a spinner to be batting in the positions 9-11 and his test batting is currently flattered by the fact team's are only just starting to work out he's hopeless against spin bowling. But New Zealand took only two innings to work it out, Australia three tests, so it's happening.

You could even look at characters like Bess if you want a competitor who could grow into a defensive bowling, number eight position. But for me Ali is still obviously the best and it's Silverwood's job to find a way of coaxing constituency out of him. It's criminal really that he gets cast aside - he's one of our very few genuine matchwinners. If you look at the last five years of cricket, he's probably turned more games of cricket for England than any player we have, though Stokes' last twelve months might have taken him past now.
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Yeah I would have Ali back too, I am not too concerned about Leach’s test batting, although take your point about teams working him out, as he is not in the side for his batting he is in for his bowling.

I have never thought he was a test spinner, and is record is influenced and made a lot better in first class cricket by the recent spinning tracks at Taunton in recent years.
 
rentaghost said:
That's the argument I would expect and its a fair one. However name a candidate and their will be just as good a reason not to select them. Who would your choice be? I think I would probably persevere with Root just because their is no realistic option and hope that a) He turns it around or b) Burns consolidates his place for a few more tests and then takes over the captaincy.
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Ben Stokes it has to be.
 
Comeback_Kenwyne said:
Agree.

He's certainly not good enough a spinner to be batting in the positions 9-11 and his test batting is currently flattered by the fact team's are only just starting to work out he's hopeless against spin bowling. But New Zealand took only two innings to work it out, Australia three tests, so it's happening.

You could even look at characters like Bess if you want a competitor who could grow into a defensive bowling, number eight position. But for me Ali is still obviously the best and it's Silverwood's job to find a way of coaxing constituency out of him. It's criminal really that he gets cast aside - he's one of our very few genuine matchwinners. If you look at the last five years of cricket, he's probably turned more games of cricket for England than any player we have, though Stokes' last twelve months might have taken him past now.
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In fairness I don't think Ali has been cast aside but his form had been poor. Sure he'll be back, wouldn't be surprised if it was for the SA series.
 
Silverwood going home due to a family bereavement. Thorpe and Colly in charge for the 2nd test.

Sad for Silverwood, but it's hardly ideal.....
 
Buttler a doubt for tonight, Pope to keep wicket and one of Crawley or Woakes to come in. Think I'd go with Crawley, there are enough bowlers in the side that one more just means one or two will be under bowled
 
Liverpool Beachball said:
Bit rough on Pope having to keep wicket when he’s trying to establish himself as a batsman
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Couldnt agree more mate.Foakes should have been on tour.The ecb ineptitude never ceases to amaze me.They never ever learn.
Burns
Sibley
Denly
Root (last test as capt if lose )
Pope
Stokes
Foakes wc
Curran S.
Leach
Broad
Archer
I hold Ed BUFFOON Smith for the Pope/ Foakes debacle.
I hold Ed BUFFOON Smith responsible for the Pope/Foakes debacle.
 
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Looks like

Burns
Sibley
Denly
Root
Stokes
Crawley
Pope
Woakes
Curran
Archer
Broad

Happy with Crawley choice but 5 seamers is a bit of a joke, especially as Denly didn’t even get a bowl last test (iirc)
 
Sibley, Burns, Denly, Root (c), Stokes, Crawley, Pope (w), Woakes, Curran, Archer, Broad

That is a line up packed with batters
 
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