Covid jab to become mandatory for care home staff

royalmush83 said:
How exactly? If the vaccine stops death and pretty much all serious illness then surely having the residents vaccinated is enough?
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Does the vaccine offer 100% protection?

The answer is no, so the staff going into work without the jab are increasing the risk to their colleagues and the residents. Direct breach of H&S law.
 


rudd said:
There's no health and safety rule that mandates vaccination.
I'm no lawyer but it's going to be very dodgy ground for employers dealing with employees with long service, especially when there's options of PPE and free testing available.
The current covid vaccine rollout is for everyone to be offered a vaccine, not taking it and that'll surely have an impact on the judgement?
Seems difficult to mandate it for social carers when it's not being done for others working in higher risk settings like hospitals. Be interesting to see how it pans out.
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Risk. It’s about RISK. Protect yourself and others it clearly states.

PPE is the last step on the hierarchy of control And should be only considered when all other steps have been exhausted. The staff have a choice. If they are not willing to have the jab for personal reasons, they do not have to work there. They can walk away.

Imagine you are working with somebody who is refusing to have the jab and you catch it from them. It then runs rife in a care home. The HSE should be involved in cases such as that because it is reckless behaviour. Knowing the risk the employer has still allowed unvaccinated people to create an unsafe workplace.
 
mickonline said:
Risk. It’s about RISK. Protect yourself and others it clearly states.

PPE is the last step on the hierarchy of control And should be only considered when all other steps have been exhausted. The staff have a choice. If they are not willing to have the jab for personal reasons, they do not have to work there. They can walk away.

Imagine you are working with somebody who is refusing to have the jab and you catch it from them. It then runs rife in a care home. The HSE should be involved in cases such as that because it is reckless behaviour. Knowing the risk the employer has still allowed unvaccinated people to create an unsafe workplace.
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the jab doesnt stop you spreading the virus though
Frijj said:
Says the flat earth loon
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i dont know why the nature of our home is brought into every one of my conversations on here , lets just deal with the issue at hand
 
mickonline said:
Risk. It’s about RISK. Protect yourself and others it clearly states.

PPE is the last step on the hierarchy of control And should be only considered when all other steps have been exhausted. The staff have a choice. If they are not willing to have the jab for personal reasons, they do not have to work there. They can walk away.

Imagine you are working with somebody who is refusing to have the jab and you catch it from them. It then runs rife in a care home. The HSE should be involved in cases such as that because it is reckless behaviour. Knowing the risk the employer has still allowed unvaccinated people to create an unsafe workplace.
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Exactly, it's about risk and reasonably practical measures.
So how can we mandate it in social care settings when it's not mandated in riskier settings like ICU, chemotherapy services and care of the elderly wards in hospitals?
 
mickonline said:
Does the vaccine offer 100% protection?

The answer is no, so the staff going into work without the jab are increasing the risk to their colleagues and the residents. Direct breach of H&S law.
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So if it doesn’t offer 100% protection from severe disease and death, what % does it offer? So what we need to protect old folk in care homes from is, someone unvaccinated, who hasn’t already had COVID, catching COVID, then passing it onto someone vaccinated, who the vaccine didn’t then protect?
In order to stop this chain of events, which must have a small probability in all likelihood, what we plan to do is force vaccinate citizens?
sounds totally disproportionate and wrong to me.
Darlo1973 said:
Then we have a healthier workforce.
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Our unhealthy workforce has sod all to do with vaccine uptake mind.
 
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rudd said:
Exactly, it's about risk and reasonably practical measures.
So how can we mandate it in social care settings when it's not mandated in riskier settings like ICU, chemotherapy services and care of the elderly wards in hospitals?
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So.

So its OK for the care home residents to have the jab to reduce the risk of catching CV19 but its not OK to stop people who can potentially spread a life threatening virus into that workplace and the simplest solution for the residents and work colleagues is to have the jab?

The reasonable practical measure are have the jab.

Your a special kind of person aren’t you?
 
mickonline said:
Risk. It’s about RISK. Protect yourself and others it clearly states.

PPE is the last step on the hierarchy of control And should be only considered when all other steps have been exhausted. The staff have a choice. If they are not willing to have the jab for personal reasons, they do not have to work there. They can walk away.

Imagine you are working with somebody who is refusing to have the jab and you catch it from them. It then runs rife in a care home. The HSE should be involved in cases such as that because it is reckless behaviour. Knowing the risk the employer has still allowed unvaccinated people to create an unsafe workplace.
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its not mandatory in other secondary care NHS settings, it isn’t mandatory in primary care settings, it isn’t mandatory in other NHS organisations, and its very debatable if its even legally enforceable.

forget all that though, all organisations above plus care homes have been struggling to recruit and retain staff for well over 10 years. Who runs these places if staff leave on mass due to changes in law?
 
Danny said:
1974? Has it not been updated?
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They still use 1974.
Gaz said:
its not mandatory in other secondary care NHS settings, it isn’t mandatory in primary care settings, it isn’t mandatory in other NHS organisations, and its very debatable if its even legally enforceable.

forget all that though, all organisations above plus care homes have been struggling to recruit and retain staff for well over 10 years. Who runs these places if staff leave on mass due to changes in law?
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Well thats OK then. Just kill the residents by bringing a life threatening virus in.

If they cant recruit staff that will solve the problem.
royalmush83 said:
So if it doesn’t offer 100% protection from severe disease and death, what % does it offer? So what we need to protect old folk in care homes from is, someone unvaccinated, who hasn’t already had COVID, catching COVID, then passing it onto someone vaccinated, who the vaccine didn’t then protect?
In order to stop this chain of events, which must have a small probability in all likelihood, what we plan to do is force vaccinate citizens?
sounds totally disproportionate and wrong to me.

Our unhealthy workforce has sod all to do with vaccine uptake mind.
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The protection needs to be about importing a virus into care home settings.

If unvaccinated staff are working in care homes the risk increases to the residents.
 
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Gaz said:
its not mandatory in other secondary care NHS settings, it isn’t mandatory in primary care settings, it isn’t mandatory in other NHS organisations, and its very debatable if its even legally enforceable.

forget all that though, all organisations above plus care homes have been struggling to recruit and retain staff for well over 10 years. Who runs these places if staff leave on mass due to changes in law?
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Is there any evidence that staff will leave "on mass"?

Personally, I'd prefer to work somewhere where all of my colleagues had been vaccinated as I would if I was a patient or relative.

In a risk/benefit analysis, there are many benefits and minute risks. It's not even close.
 
mickonline said:
They still use 1974.
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What if in their efforts to protect people they actually cause them harm? If my calculations are correct at least 1 person will die from the vaccine if every nurse is vaccinated. Its the old saying would you kill 1 person to save 1000. I say its fine to jab them all and if they refuse then move them off the frontline or help them find another job.
 
mickonline said:
They still use 1974.

Well thats OK then. Just kill the residents by bringing a life threatening virus in.

If they cant recruit staff that will solve the problem.
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in an ideal world everyone would be vaccinated, but it isn’t an ideal world and people have a choice. A lot of the care homes / organisations are private companies and will challenge it, as well as unions etc.

Its just another proposed change by people in government who don’t have a clue and try to dictate without understanding potential consequences.

I have someone in a care home and i’m scared she’ll get it. i’d like her carers to have the jab, but don’t agree they could lose their job if declined
Darlo1973 said:
Is there any evidence that staff will leave "on mass"?

Personally, I'd prefer to work somewhere where all of my colleagues had been vaccinated as I would if I was a patient or relative.

In a risk/benefit analysis, there are many benefits and minute risks. It's not even close.
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a lot are leaving now as they are disillusioned / pissed off. Push them a little more will just force more out imo. We’d have to wait and see, but it won’t go down well

would you be forced to have a jab you didn’t want when they could walk away and earn similar money in Primark or Aldi? The problem is replacing them which is already a nightmare
I'm Spartacus said:
What if someone forced to get the jab dies of a blood clot?
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that’ll be the Care Homes fault for making them have the jab :rolleyes:
 
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mickonline said:
So.

So its OK for the care home residents to have the jab to reduce the risk of catching CV19 but its not OK to stop people who can potentially spread a life threatening virus into that workplace and the simplest solution for the residents and work colleagues is to have the jab?

The reasonable practical measure are have the jab.

Your a special kind of person aren’t you?
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Nope, just trying to understand your reasoning and apply it to the bigger picture, but it doesn't make sense. If it was "all about risk" like you said, then riskier places would have the same mandate, so that doesn't stand up.

I agree all carers should have the jab, a huge part of my job is working into care homes. I'd love it if more staff were vaccinated for my safety, the patients I have in there and for the extremely vulnerable people I go home to, but I'm completely against forcing it upon them and think it could cause more harm than good.
The health and safety at work act has never been tested for vaccinations, ever. Forcing vaccines could lead to staff leaving in an already grossly understaffed industry, claims of unfair dismissal and discrimination and messy court cases.

*You're ;)
 
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Call me sceptical but part of me thinks this is a rushed out plan, influenced by all the flack about the "protective ring around care homes" remark and a means to take away the negative focus from that.
 
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