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Collapse of the Pyramid System

  • Thread starter Thread starter mrreal
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Sweeper said:
Surprised at that. I suspect that they have been given the guarantees they were looking for re relegation and clearing out the deadwood.
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You do like to speculate; Relegation nothing to do with NCB more so the current NEPL 1 clubs. NCB concerned with their lack of representation in both divisions. Asked for survey to be carried out by the league into early starts as thats what they feel the main sticking factor is regarding the lack of Northumberland based clubs showing an interest in NEPL cricket . Survey carried out as requested and result show NEPL 1 players would like to stick with morning starts therefore no further action on the subject. NEPL has now satisfied the criteria NCB asked them to look into and they have now signed it off.
You cant possibly relegate team out of the NEPL 2 until there is a working system in place below it and you know the issues between the TSL, DSL, coast and county league it could take years.
 

LoB said:
You do like to speculate; Relegation nothing to do with NCB more so the current NEPL 1 clubs. NCB concerned with their lack of representation in both divisions. Asked for survey to be carried out by the league into early starts as thats what they feel the main sticking factor is regarding the lack of Northumberland based clubs showing an interest in NEPL cricket . Survey carried out as requested and result show NEPL 1 players would like to stick with morning starts therefore no further action on the subject. NEPL has now satisfied the criteria NCB asked them to look into and they have now signed it off.
You cant possibly relegate team out of the NEPL 2 until there is a working system in place below it and you know the issues between the TSL, DSL, coast and county league it could take years.
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You know fine well where my info on this front comes from and that it's anything but speculation.

The NCB includes a number of NEPL1 clubs that are stationed north of the river and raised concerns on their behalf as to the overall standard of NEPL2 (which is as previously discussed way below wht was hoped for).

I would expect a working promotion/relegation system to be in place by the start of next year - that's the purpose of the meeting between the DSL, DCCL and DCL top brass next Sunday.
 
It'll be the first of about 20 meetings and even then theres no guarantee a working system will be agreed on. Leagues will jostle for position for the next year or two before theirs any give or take with regards to a new structure. Assume all the leagues will be wary of working with the DSL and whats to say the TSL will want to sit below the NEPL 2 given that it considers it a lower standard? Why would DSL clubs want to be a part in a new system given the clubs left in the league have no intention of moving one way or the other? - All the clubs who've wanted to move have now done so.
Can only see a long drawn out process with dummy's coming out all over the place.
The respective cricket boards wont get involved past chairing the meetings between leagues so what you really need is the ECB to sort it out and even then theres nothing stopping individual leagues simply not taking part ie. NYSD circa 2000.
 
LoB said:
It'll be the first of about 20 meetings and even then theres no guarantee a working system will be agreed on. Leagues will jostle for position for the next year or two before theirs any give or take with regards to a new structure. Assume all the leagues will be wary of working with the DSL and whats to say the TSL will want to sit below the NEPL 2 given that it considers it a lower standard? Why would DSL clubs want to be a part in a new system given the clubs left in the league have no intention of moving one way or the other? - All the clubs who've wanted to move have now done so.
Can only see a long drawn out process with dummy's coming out all over the place.
The respective cricket boards wont get involved past chairing the meetings between leagues so what you really need is the ECB to sort it out and even then theres nothing stopping individual leagues simply not taking part ie. NYSD circa 2000.
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Because they have no choice. The difference between the DSL now and the one that spat the dummy out a year or so ago is huge - they thought they would break away as one complete league but have now lost half a dozen clubs overnight. Without some sort of recruitment/merger the DSL won't survive.
 
Sweeper said:
Because they have no choice. The difference between the DSL now and the one that spat the dummy out a year or so ago is huge - they thought they would break away as one complete league but have now lost half a dozen clubs overnight. Without some sort of recruitment/merger the DSL won't survive.
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It can survive with one more club and build over time. In your haste to see the DSL condemned to the history books you're not seeing the bigger picture.
 
LoB said:
It can survive with one more club and build over time. In your haste to see the DSL condemned to the history books you're not seeing the bigger picture.
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It can survive with one more club for a year perhaps - but even then I think the clubs wouldn't exactly be licking their lips at the prospect of a short season with 8 teams.

A re-structuring is going to happen with or without the DSL they're not daft and they know that - if they bury their head in the sand and try and get by for even a short time with seven (or if theyre lucky eight) clubs everything will pass them by.
 
Theres so many different permutations possible its not worth going into all will no doubt be explored and this will take time. Be interested to know what your proposal would involve.
 
I would regionalise junior and wid-week third team cricket, and bring the remainder of the DCCL, DSL and DCL together into a two-tier Durham Cricket League for saturday cricket.

The upper of these two tiers would sit below NEPL2 with automatic (and compulsary) one-up, one-down promotion/relegation from 2014.

If the TSL do not want to be involved in promotion/relegation then fair enough - but we need to officially cut them out of the DURHAM pyramid.
 
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Thats fair enough and probably the only sensible solution good luck convincing the respective leagues to disband in favour of this set up . As I say it'll take years.
 
LoB said:
Thats fair enough and probably the only sensible solution good luck convincing the respective leagues to disband in favour of this set up . As I say it'll take years.
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If the DSL league don't want to bite the bullet (and I would be amazed if they don't seeing as it's their position that is the most untenable at the moment) then the DCCL and DCL won't just sit back and wait for them to change their mind. A new system is going to happen and if the DSL don't want to be part of it they'll just be left to their own devices - their remaining seven clubs are not essential.
 
Shall bump this in a years time. You think the Coast League with their perceived strength will give up its identity just like that?
Think your being slightly naive but we'll soon see.
 
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LoB said:
Possibly a pro / contracted player but that will be about it.
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I'm on about next year man - you'll have another half a dozen to bring in over the winter after the September meeting about the date of the meeting to discuss arranging meetings with players.

stanstheman said:
Clubs,players and officials are to be surveyed in NTSL,about what they want, sometime soon,so I am told.
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I don't see the point - unless the majority want to be part of the Durham system (and therefore bound by compulsary promotion/relegation) then we may as well wish the NTSL well and let them do their own thing.

If the NTSL stay involved artificially with the likes of Swalwell able to put a spanner in the works by refusing promotion, then it causes problems.

There's a largely clean slate available this year to re-design the pyramid system; and we have the benefit of hindsight having seen where the "Holland Report" system let itself down. We need to take advantage of it.
 
Sweeper said:
I'm on about next year man - you'll have another half a dozen to bring in over the winter after the September meeting about the date of the meeting to discuss arranging meetings with players.



I don't see the point - unless the majority want to be part of the Durham system (and therefore bound by compulsary promotion/relegation) then we may as well wish the NTSL well and let them do their own thing.

If the NTSL stay involved artificially with the likes of Swalwell able to put a spanner in the works by refusing promotion, then it causes problems.

There's a largely clean slate available this year to re-design the pyramid system; and we have the benefit of hindsight having seen where the "Holland Report" system let itself down. We need to take advantage of it.
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Point 1 - So was I.

Point 2 - The NEPL have to agree to any new system before they relegate anyone into it and they've already stated it will be on their terms and no one elses. Hinted towards compulsory promotion / relegation between the feeder leagues and NEPL 2 so you dont get a Swalwell or Burnmoor blocking any movement. That being so cant see the NTSL signing up to it.
If the leagues eventually come up with a system which exludes the NTSL you'd imagine the Northumberland CB will be even less likely to endorse it. You'd effectively be saying the NEPL is only open to Durham based clubs bar the four already in. They simply wont allow it to happen.

Its going to take a while to sort out ....
 
LoB said:
Point 1 - So was I.

Point 2 - The NEPL have to agree to any new system before they relegate anyone into it and they've already stated it will be on their terms and no one elses. Hinted towards compulsory promotion / relegation between the feeder leagues and NEPL 2 so you dont get a Swalwell or Burnmoor blocking any movement. That being so cant see the NTSL signing up to it.
If the leagues eventually come up with a system which exludes the NTSL you'd imagine the Northumberland CB will be even less likely to endorse it. You'd effectively be saying the NEPL is only open to Durham based clubs bar the four already in. They simply wont allow it to happen.

Its going to take a while to sort out ....
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They don't have to - they simply need to make sure that the leagues under their control are willing tio sign up to compulsary promotion/relegation to NEPL2. If those leagues aren't willing to do it, then there won't be anyone upset with the Northumberland leagues being carved out of the system. It would be their choice.
 
You cant force anyone to sign up to anything nor can you 'carve' anyone out. The NTSL isnt 'under the control' of the NCB . The NTSL has just as many clubs based in Durham as it has Northumberland.

Lets just see how this pans out but can see a fair few bumps in the road without really looking in depth.
 
You would have thought that the best way to protect your interest is to whole heardedly embrace the changes by trying to influence them not rail against them.

The likes of the DSL have this all wrong and will surely pay for it in the long run. What are they now down to - 8 clubs? simply not viable and it'll no doubt show this year when the season will start in April and be over by May (metaphorically speaking).

the ECB together with the DCB should be setting out their structure for cricket in the NE and asking leagues as to where they see themselves fitting in. Those that dont play ball = the DSL? should be left to whither and die.
 
Sweeper said:
I don't see the point - unless the majority want to be part of the Durham system (and therefore bound by compulsary promotion/relegation) then we may as well wish the NTSL well and let them do their own thing.

If the NTSL stay involved artificially with the likes of Swalwell able to put a spanner in the works by refusing promotion, then it causes problems.

There's a largely clean slate available this year to re-design the pyramid system; and we have the benefit of hindsight having seen where the "Holland Report" system let itself down. We need to take advantage of it.
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I suspect the survey is a requirement, placed by one or both Cricket Boards, to reach a consensus on the type of cricket played in the NEPL feeder leagues so that the pyramid system is more consistent in the way it works. The results may help negate the 'Swalwell factor'.

There are teams, in other leagues, looking for a move to NTSL to further their ambitions too esp now the Sacriston is moving on.
 
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