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Collapse of the Pyramid System

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LoB said:
As for Swalwell most of their players have played NEPL or first class cricket for longer than they care to remember most arnt young lads anymore while some have young kids and some others work Saturday mornings this being the reason they choose to play afternoon cricket in the NTSL they've no wish to change that. When you've played first class cricket dont suppose not wanting to play NEPL 2 shows a lack of ambition.
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If this is the case then in my humble opinion it is a sad state of affairs for their club. Surely a decision in the interests of your club is about seeing the bigger picture rather than the opinions of 3 or 4 lads who work on a Saturday morning and 2 lads who used to play the odd 1st class game here and there.

My point was not stating that these players were at fault anyway, but that a club who seem desparate to win the league every season at any cost is a bit pointless. If they are insistent on not progressing surely they need to stop shelling out thousands on these county journeymen and try and get a few coaches in during the winter to prepare some of their juniors for the step up to senior cricket.
 

I personally think that the NEPL2 will not take off, and attract the interest of the better Northumberland teams, until the standard tof the NEPL2 has gone up.

Within three or four years, a couple of relegations/promotions should see the NEPL2 looking a bit more like the league that was intended - at this moment in time it doesn't look particularly impressive, and there are one or two sides in there who are definitely out of place (and from what I'm told wouldn't have got anywhere near it had the clubs that the NEPL wanted all actually applied).

It's all a bit messy at the moment.

Carteron said:
If this is the case then in my humble opinion it is a sad state of affairs for their club. Surely a decision in the interests of your club is about seeing the bigger picture rather than the opinions of 3 or 4 lads who work on a Saturday morning and 2 lads who used to play the odd 1st class game here and there.

My point was not stating that these players were at fault anyway, but that a club who seem desparate to win the league every season at any cost is a bit pointless. If they are insistent on not progressing surely they need to stop shelling out thousands on these county journeymen and try and get a few coaches in during the winter to prepare some of their juniors for the step up to senior cricket.
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It's a bit patronising to tell them what is and isn't in the best interests of their club mate. Looking at the make up of the respective leagues it could definitely be argued that Swalwell will be playing at a higher standard of cricket next year in TSL1 than they would be in NEPL2.

Even if that weren't the case, what's to say that the decision to stay put is not in the best interests of their club? They're currently thriving as a club from what I gather, from first XI right down to their juniors, and are doing it in a strong league that they know well.
 
Carteron said:
If this is the case then in my humble opinion it is a sad state of affairs for their club. Surely a decision in the interests of your club is about seeing the bigger picture rather than the opinions of 3 or 4 lads who work on a Saturday morning and 2 lads who used to play the odd 1st class game here and there.

My point was not stating that these players were at fault anyway, but that a club who seem desparate to win the league every season at any cost is a bit pointless. If they are insistent on not progressing surely they need to stop shelling out thousands on these county journeymen and try and get a few coaches in during the winter to prepare some of their juniors for the step up to senior cricket.
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Was out with one of the 'county journeyman' last Saturday night, they as a club do a lot of coaching and run a full junior set up. He said the problem they've got is they dont have too much in terms of depth and second XI would struggle big style in NEPL second team league that being the case interest would drop away very quickly and they'd be left even fewer in number. You've got to remember they attract players who've done their stint in NEPL and no longer want to play the longer format of the game what they get paid is irrelevant.
Similar problem for years in DSL with Burnmoors ex county pro's winning the league they've got nothing to prove in NEPL and are an older side who enjoy playing together. I'd suggest its up to the other clubs to catch them up not whinge because they cant compete.

As for NEPL 2 they probably haven't got their dream line up in place, I dont think anyone would dispute that but surely their better off having a system in place and over time the league can only grow in terms of strength and numbers. Its a start and its certainly better than no system at all. The TSL is as strong as its ever going to get where as the NEPL 2 will only get stronger over time.
Stick a contracted player as well as an oversea's in a few of the prospective NEPL 2 clubs and you get a completely different outlook in terms of playing strength.
 
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Sweeper said:
I personally think that the NEPL2 will not take off, and attract the interest of the better Northumberland teams, until the standard tof the NEPL2 has gone up.

Within three or four years, a couple of relegations/promotions should see the NEPL2 looking a bit more like the league that was intended - at this moment in time it doesn't look particularly impressive, and there are one or two sides in there who are definitely out of place (and from what I'm told wouldn't have got anywhere near it had the clubs that the NEPL wanted all actually applied).

It's all a bit messy at the moment.



It's a bit patronising to tell them what is and isn't in the best interests of their club mate. Looking at the make up of the respective leagues it could definitely be argued that Swalwell will be playing at a higher standard of cricket next year in TSL1 than they would be in NEPL2.

Even if that weren't the case, what's to say that the decision to stay put is not in the best interests of their club? They're currently thriving as a club from what I gather, from first XI right down to their juniors, and are doing it in a strong league that they know well.
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The problem is that as mentioned previously on here their decision is based around a few lads who work til lunchtime on a Saturday and a couple of mercenaries who are paid very well for playing at a lower level than they are capable of.

Don't get me wrong, its their club's perogative to do as they please, but when these 3 or 4 Saturday workers finish playing, and the mercenaries money dries up their club will be in dire straits and could end up going down the path of other formerly great clubs like Greenside and Consett.

Maybe you are right in that sense that a new league is not the best idea given that in 4 or 5 years they could be struggling for decent quality players. You mention they are now thriving at junior level. Surely their next step then if this is the case is to try and get these lads into the first team to experience playing against these top players who wont be around forever. From what I hear (which could be rubbish bear in mind) even this year they are forking out more on 2 or 3 additions to the paid ranks. If I was a 16 year old making a few in the Under 18s at Swalwell I wouldn't exactly be enthusiastic about my path to Senior Cricket!
 
LoB said:
Was out with one of the 'county journeyman' last Saturday night, they as a club do a lot of coaching and run a full junior set up. He said the problem they've got is they dont have too much in terms of depth and second XI would struggle big style in NEPL second team league that being the case interest would drop away very quickly and they'd be left even fewer in number. You've got to remember they attract players who've done their stint in NEPL and no longer want to play the longer format of the game what they get paid is irrelevant.
Similar problem for years in DSL with Burnmoors ex county pro's winning the league they've got nothing to prove in NEPL and are an older side who enjoy playing together. I'd suggest its up to the other clubs to catch them up not whinge because they cant compete.

As for NEPL 2 they probably haven't got their dream line up in place, I dont think anyone would dispute that but surely their better off having a system in place and over time the league can only grow in terms of strength and numbers. Its a start and its certainly better than no system at all. The TSL is as strong as its ever going to get where as the NEPL 2 will only get stronger over time.Stick a contracted player as well as an oversea's in a few of the prospective NEPL 2 clubs and you get a completely different outlook in terms of playing strength.
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Yeah but on the assumption that all of the clubs will get the contracted player and overseas - then surely the difference between success and failure is still going to be the lads already on the books?

The NEPL are disappointed with the make up of NEPL2, and did expect a lot more of the better sides to apply, but like you say the key thing is to get the thing set up and allow the promotion/relegation to weed out the also-rans. Whilst there are some good sides involved, including some of the strongest DSL clubs, there are clubs in there who didn't even finish in the top six of their respective leagues last year!!

Apparently there are plans afoot to revise the "stay of execution"; to only give NEPL2 clubs one year, not two, without relegation. This will allow the league to strengthen itself a bit earlier than was envisaged.
 
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LoB said:
Was out with one of the 'county journeyman' last Saturday night, they as a club do a lot of coaching and run a full junior set up. He said the problem they've got is they dont have too much in terms of depth and second XI would struggle big style in NEPL second team league that being the case interest would drop away very quickly and they'd be left even fewer in number. You've got to remember they attract players who've done their stint in NEPL and no longer want to play the longer format of the game what they get paid is irrelevant.
Similar problem for years in DSL with Burnmoors ex county pro's winning the league they've got nothing to prove in NEPL and are an older side who enjoy playing together. I'd suggest its up to the other clubs to catch them up not whinge because they cant compete.

As for NEPL 2 they probably haven't got their dream line up in place, I dont think anyone would dispute that but surely their better off having a system in place and over time the league can only grow in terms of strength and numbers. Its a start and its certainly better than no system at all. The TSL is as strong as its ever going to get where as the NEPL 2 will only get stronger over time.
Stick a contracted player as well as an oversea's in a few of the prospective NEPL 2 clubs and you get a completely different outlook in terms of playing strength.
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I see his point regarding the lack of depth and this has long been a problem at Swalwell.

However, in my experience I remember them having 2 excellent young players (both represented League U21 sides and were staring to get a sniff in the 1st team) who made a few first team runs. Yes, they were never going to be world beaters but with a bit more exposure could have become good league cricketers. Both batted at times in the top 5 but on the back of 1 or 2 failures and some further imports they ended up sliding down the order to 9 and 10 and just drifted out of the game.

It is fantastic that they run such an extensive junior section, but with ageing 1st and 2nd teams it is crucial that someone takes it upon themselves to get these kids moving through the system, and exposed to senior cricket as soon as possible.
 
Interesting points here.

As an aside, why don't leagues insist that all member clubs field at least two junior sides across the four categories? You could give a couple of years' advance notice of the regulation to give them chance to get geared up.
 
NorthCountryBoy said:
Interesting points here.

As an aside, why don't leagues insist that all member clubs field at least two junior sides across the four categories? You could give a couple of years' advance notice of the regulation to give them chance to get geared up.
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I would imagine there will be some kind of stipulation regarding this in the Prem and to an extent I agree with it. I suppose the line must be drawn somewhere though as falling down through the ladder there will be some very small clubs who simply dont have the numbers available for such teams.

In an ideal world I would love to see a rule where clubs have to field 2 or 3 homegrown players, or 2 or 3 under 21s, however again owing to numbers in some clubs this could be of a detriment to someone not good enough to play at that level (or would just see them as making the numbers up batting 10 and 11)
 
Sweeper said:
The NEPL are disappointed with the make up of NEPL2, and did expect a lot more of the better sides to apply, but like you say the key thing is to get the thing set up and allow the promotion/relegation to weed out the also-rans. Whilst there are some good sides involved, including some of the strongest DSL clubs, there are clubs in there who didn't even finish in the top six of their respective leagues last year!!

Apparently there are plans afoot to revise the "stay of execution"; to only give NEPL2 clubs one year, not two, without relegation. This will allow the league to strengthen itself a bit earlier than was envisaged.
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One finished outside the top 6 (i think) and they've finished 2nd and 4th in the last 4 seasons. One swallow doesn't make a summer.

"Stay of Execution" you refer to for the NEPL 2 clubs in this sense is only for being promoted to NEPL 1. No ones going to get relegated from div 2 before a working system is established and thats only going to happen with the agreement of the NEPL as a whole which could as i'm sure you'll agree with take years. I'd also hazard a guess they'll fill the two gaps in NEPL 2 before relegating anyone.

Carteron said:
However, in my experience I remember them having 2 excellent young players (both represented League U21 sides and were staring to get a sniff in the 1st team) who made a few first team runs. Yes, they were never going to be world beaters but with a bit more exposure could have become good league cricketers. Both batted at times in the top 5 but on the back of 1 or 2 failures and some further imports they ended up sliding down the order to 9 and 10 and just drifted out of the game.

It is fantastic that they run such an extensive junior section, but with ageing 1st and 2nd teams it is crucial that someone takes it upon themselves to get these kids moving through the system, and exposed to senior cricket as soon as possible.
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I understand that but whose to stay what the right and wrong way to run a cricket club is obviously paying out money on 4 or 5 players a season without much coming back into the club is unsustainable but thats down to them to remedy that , perhaps they've got a plan in place who knows?

Bring your own juniors through and blooding them from an early age seems to be the agreed morally acceptable way to build a healthy club for the future but is it? I'm sure we've all spent thousands of hours and pounds as a club on juniors, coaches, facilities and possibly even blooded them at the expense of some one who may be perceived dead wood at the club which in theory is great. Then what happens as soon as any of them become half decent (not even a stand out player at first XI level) they get picked off by a perceived bigger club at a higher level not helped by outside pressure from Durham setups etc. What you left with for all your hard work ?

I've played for both types of club and in reality the answer to building a strong sustainable club is probably somewhere in between. The clubs with the most money will win the competitions most of the time.
 
LoB said:
One finished outside the top 6 (i think) and they've finished 2nd and 4th in the last 4 seasons. One swallow doesn't make a summer.
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I'm not sure who you're referring to but we're talking about different clubs I think - for me to play in a consolidated NEPL2 you should have finished top 6 DSL or NTSL; or top 3 in DCCL/DCL.

LoB said:
"Stay of Execution" you refer to for the NEPL 2 clubs in this sense is only for being promoted to NEPL 1. No ones going to get relegated from div 2 before a working system is established and thats only going to happen with the agreement of the NEPL as a whole which could as i'm sure you'll agree with take years. I'd also hazard a guess they'll fill the two gaps in NEPL 2 before relegating anyone.
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No - by all accounts the NEPL top brass and most of the NEPL1 clubs (not just those north of the Tyne) are uncomfortable with the quality of the current make up of NEPL2 and want guarantees that there'll be relegation of the poorer sides from 2013. There's concern that teams will not make the step up and there'll be no way for them to bow out and find their level.

They expected that they'd get your Boldon CCs, Whitburns, Fellings, Brandons etc; but they also expected applications from the other top DSL teams, the best TSL sides and the stronger DCCL teams, which they didn't get.

LoB said:
I understand that but whose to stay what the right and wrong way to run a cricket club is obviously paying out money on 4 or 5 players a season without much coming back into the club is unsustainable but thats down to them to remedy that , perhaps they've got a plan in place who knows?

Bring your own juniors through and blooding them from an early age seems to be the agreed morally acceptable way to build a healthy club for the future but is it? I'm sure we've all spent thousands of hours and pounds as a club on juniors, coaches, facilities and possibly even blooded them at the expense of some one who may be perceived dead wood at the club which in theory is great. Then what happens as soon as any of them become half decent (not even a stand out player at first XI level) they get picked off by a perceived bigger club at a higher level not helped by outside pressure from Durham setups etc. What you left with for all your hard work ?

I've played for both types of club and in reality the answer to building a strong sustainable club is probably somewhere in between. The clubs with the most money will win the competitions most of the time.
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You and I have had this conversation more times than I'd care to remember over the past ten years or more, and we won't agree. For me it comes down to the fact that "winning trophies" and having a "strong club" are NOT, and never will be, the same thing. The former can stem from the latter but is definitely not a pre-requisite to it. We all essentially play village cricket and the clubs were established to provide cricket to their local communities - whilst winning is great and we all enjoy competitive sport, it can't be to the detriment of what the club is there for.

There are a number of clubs who will pay over the odds, or will actively seek to bring in a new raft of first team players every year etc in the hunt of a stronger first XI, but there are very few examples of this actually creating a stronger club in the long run.

I always look to Murton as an example (although there are others) - dominated the DCCL for five years or so recently but did so by shelling out money and bringing in players with no affiliation to the club. As a resuklt their local players lost interest and their junior section went to the wall. Almost overnight the money dried up and they were left without any junior sides and on occassion struggling to fulfil senior fixtures. The were rock bottom last year. Was it worth it? I should mention in the interests of fairness that they are working hard to resurrect their junior section and get back on track, but they have left themselves with a lot of work to do.

Having a strong junior section over a long period of time is essential and losing the odd gem to the Academy of NEPL1 will never invalidate the work put into junior cricket. It's just as important to produce the next generation of third teamers as it is the next first team opening batsman.

My club has had pros in the past (although will go without this year) like a lot of other teams but have, and will always rely on, our local cricketers. We fielded 44 different senior players in one weekend last year of which 38 had played junior cricket for the club. Regardless of the results in those four games (which I can't recall) - that is the sign of a "successful club", much more so than any one-off cup win.
 
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NorthCountryBoy said:
Interesting points here.

As an aside, why don't leagues insist that all member clubs field at least two junior sides across the four categories? You could give a couple of years' advance notice of the regulation to give them chance to get geared up.
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Junior sides should be a stipulation for any decent league
 
coast league had there monthly meeting last night and the whole thing is no where near sorted.

the coast league need to hold a meeting with the county league and the senior to propose what they want to happen with the three leagues.

the coast league have 10 teams left, the county league 8 and the senior league 7 teams.

between us we need to decide what we want to do,thats what the durham board have left the leagues to do.

we need suggestions and fast.

the coast league have now lost washington and the harbour to the nepl2.

can anyone post a list of the 25 clubs who are left in the 3 leagues?

coast league have: Hylton, murton, silky, easington, dawdon, ryhope, peterlee, boldon ca, bill quay and seaham park.
 
county league have shildon,crook,esh winning,evenwood,langley park,ushaw moor,tudhoe and mainsforth as of 2013.Could be interesting if the county board take over the running of the game!!
 
short leg said:
county league have shildon,crook,esh winning,evenwood,langley park,ushaw moor,tudhoe and mainsforth as of 2013.Could be interesting if the county board take over the running of the game!!
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Meeting scheduled between Durham Cricket Board and the respective chairmen of the DCCL, DSL, and DCL on 29 April.

All leagues are apparently prepared to discuss merger options. As of 2013 DSL have 7, DCCL have 10 and DCL have 8. DCCL have tabled four suggested solutions - preferred option being that all 25 clubs merge and play eachother once in 2014; with top half making up Durham Cricket League Div 1 in 2015 and bottom half making up Div 2.

All leagues have been asked to consult with their remaining clubs in advance of the meeting and arrive in a position to hold serious snd meaningful discussions. The Cricket Board have insisted that they will take over te organisation of junior cricket in the new set up and run it regionally so as to avoid excessive midweek travelling.
 
Sweeper said:
Meeting scheduled between Durham Cricket Board and the respective chairmen of the DCCL, DSL, and DCL on 29 April.

All leagues are apparently prepared to discuss merger options. As of 2013 DSL have 7, DCCL have 10 and DCL have 8. DCCL have tabled four suggested solutions - preferred option being that all 25 clubs merge and play eachother once in 2014; with top half making up Durham Cricket League Div 1 in 2015 and bottom half making up Div 2.

All leagues have been asked to consult with their remaining clubs in advance of the meeting and arrive in a position to hold serious snd meaningful discussions. The Cricket Board have insisted that they will take over te organisation of junior cricket in the new set up and run it regionally so as to avoid excessive midweek travelling.
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I'm surprised at that. I'd have thought they'd have a North and South division to cut down on travel.

If they had a 13 team league you couldn't play everyone twice without a stack of double weekends could you? Be interesting to see if they go to poach the odd NEDL team...
 
my suggestion would be for the coast league to invite 2 clubs iinto our league and keep the league as a 12 team league.
 
NorthCountryBoy said:
I'm surprised at that. I'd have thought they'd have a North and South division to cut down on travel.

If they had a 13 team league you couldn't play everyone twice without a stack of double weekends could you? Be interesting to see if they go to poach the odd NEDL team...
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I wonder which teams out of NEDL would be interested in that?
 
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