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Collapse of the Pyramid System

  • Thread starter Thread starter mrreal
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short leg said:
crook withdrew thier application and there are only 5 DSL teams left.
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So will there be an announcement from the DSL soon on what they are going to do ie fold or advertise? I'm assuming that this could trickle down and the likes of The Coast League would be next under threat if teams left them and went to the DSL.
 

YES WE GYAN said:
Boldon CC
Whitburn
Norton
Eppleton
South Hetton
Felling
Washington
Brandon
Willington
Sacriston

Those then?
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Decent league I reckon. Yes, people will undoubtedly cite the stronger sides in the region but they are all well run clubs with decent enough facilities, and given a period of time to adjust should provide a good standard of cricket.
 
Just to confirm Washington now have their letter.

Nice to see them, Willington and Brandon make it into the new set up. All three clubs have worked very hard since they were all in the NEDL. Well done an example to others on how to improve your lot.
 
Old Timer said:
Just to confirm Washington now have their letter.

Nice to see them, Willington and Brandon make it into the new set up. All three clubs have worked very hard since they were all in the NEDL. Well done an example to others on how to improve your lot.
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In all fairness, there are a lot of clubs who could have applied and didn't - including all but one of a strong TSL and the entire county of Northumberland.

Good luck to those that did apply but I think when the Premier League floated the idea they expected to be left with a stronger league overall. The whole things been a bit rushed due to the Senior League's conduct over the past 18 months. Ironically, its the Senior League who have been hardest hit - they've definitely cut their noses off to spite their face.
 
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To be fair although they may not have taken the top 3 or 4 teams from each of the strongest leagues, I do believe they have managed to attract some of the best "clubs".

The Premier League is looking for sides with good structures in place, with junior teams being run correctly, and facilities whereby a good level of cricket can be played. The initial Premier League didn't take all of the "best" teams from the leagues but as time progressed the teams developed into the best. I fully believe this will be the same with Premier League Division 2. I know a lot of players who just could not commit to all day cricket in Division 1. Division 2 appears to be an opportunity for these lads to play afternoon cricket so I am confident it will turn into an excellent league, well worthy of its place in the "pyramid".
 
Carteron said:
To be fair although they may not have taken the top 3 or 4 teams from each of the strongest leagues, I do believe they have managed to attract some of the best "clubs".
The Premier League is looking for sides with good structures in place, with junior teams being run correctly, and facilities whereby a good level of cricket can be played. The initial Premier League didn't take all of the "best" teams from the leagues but as time progressed the teams developed into the best. I fully believe this will be the same with Premier League Division 2. I know a lot of players who just could not commit to all day cricket in Division 1. Division 2 appears to be an opportunity for these lads to play afternoon cricket so I am confident it will turn into an excellent league, well worthy of its place in the "pyramid".
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That's an interesting one though - surely the strength of a club is signalled by how that "strength" is translated onto the field. Having a good U13 team or an electric scorebox isn't going to help you when you're 25-5!!
There's also the money issue - having a good structure counts for less and less at the higher levels as the clubs with the money will inevitably stay strong.

Like I said, it's going to be interesting. I do know that the powers that be in the Premier League were disappointed that a good number of the clubs they wanted, and had in mind when the idea was floated, didn't show any interest. A lack of applicants and an urgent need to pre-empt what the DSL are doing has forced their hand to a large extent as to which clubs they've had to take.

I for one hope that it goes well, as a second tier that's under the control of NEPL and ECB will effectively secure the future of the pyramid system and mean that in 10 years time everyone will have found their level. If there are one or two teams in the new NEPL2 who don't compete on the field they'll be relegated from 2015 (?) - and it's to be hoped that those stronger DSL/TSL/DCCL and Northumberland-based sides that didn't bother this time round have a change of heart by then. Competitive cricket for all - surely that's the whole point.
 
I do take your point regarding the playing side and I imagine that is why there is a 2 or 3 year freeze on relegation from the league. For sure you look at Swalwell in the TSL and they will probably have a better side than most in the Prem2 when it kicks off but if they dont want to play ball then you can't force them to join I suppose!

I suppose all clubs have 2 ways of approaching cricket looking to be successful. The money route which undoubtedly will be that taken by some of the clubs on there, and the development route whereby you look to develop good young players getting them into the 1st team where possible.

I agree that having a junior set up does not guarantee getting players through, it is more about the quality of that set up. Clubs need good coaches, good facilities, and good parents to help get the best out of the kids and develop them into good 1st team players. Most of the clubs with good junior sections have had them a good few years now, so hopefully the next 2-3 years will see the fruition of the good work and get some decent players coming through.

Don't get me wrong you will always get the likes of Swalwell, Shotley Bridge and Kimblesworth pulling good sides together in the supposed lower level leagues due to the money they spend. This is however their perogative. you would hope they show some ambition and progress to the next level, making Premier League 2 as strong as possible but if they are happy to keep trampling over the poorer sides what can you do!
 
Carteron said:
I do take your point regarding the playing side and I imagine that is why there is a 2 or 3 year freeze on relegation from the league. For sure you look at Swalwell in the TSL and they will probably have a better side than most in the Prem2 when it kicks off but if they dont want to play ball then you can't force them to join I suppose!

I suppose all clubs have 2 ways of approaching cricket looking to be successful. The money route which undoubtedly will be that taken by some of the clubs on there, and the development route whereby you look to develop good young players getting them into the 1st team where possible.

I agree that having a junior set up does not guarantee getting players through, it is more about the quality of that set up. Clubs need good coaches, good facilities, and good parents to help get the best out of the kids and develop them into good 1st team players. Most of the clubs with good junior sections have had them a good few years now, so hopefully the next 2-3 years will see the fruition of the good work and get some decent players coming through.

Don't get me wrong you will always get the likes of Swalwell, Shotley Bridge and Kimblesworth pulling good sides together in the supposed lower level leagues due to the money they spend. This is however their perogative. you would hope they show some ambition and progress to the next level, making Premier League 2 as strong as possible but if they are happy to keep trampling over the poorer sides what can you do!
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Agreed - but I think you'll see money dominate the new NEPL2 as well. Having a strong junior set up, as the majority of the clubs on the list do have, is less likely to help your 1st XI as you get higher up the pyramid as logically, a youngster has more improving to do before they make the grade. Unless a club already has a strong 1st XI in place that you can bring the odd exceptional junior player into year-on-year, then a junior set-up alone isn't going to help you make a massive leap in standard.

The majority of clubs on that list who rely on their juniors coming through have been doing it for a long time, so nothing's going to change for them and their junior sections aren't going to all of a sudden make them better, or drive their club forward.

What's going to be required for some of the clubs in the new NEPL2 to be competitive is external recruitment at first team level and unfortunately at that level of cricket external recruitment usually means paying out money.
 
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Aleem Dar said:
So what's going to happen to the DSL then?

Disband, or try and attract teams?
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I think I am right in saying that they are left with -

Kimblesworth
Burnmoor
Castle Eden
Durham City
Horden
Phili

They will presumably invite applications. Boldon CA and Seaham Harbour were keen to apply this time last year, but at the time I think they expected to be playing in a 14 team DSL that looked a lot stronger than whats on offer now.

I imagine the Harbour will still apply, but there is going to be a push for the remaining 10 DCCL clubs to stick together and take applicants for our two vacancies (Wearmouth and Whiteleas for example have apparently shown interest in the last few years). I expect Boldon CA to take a step back and re-consider their position.

If the DCCL and the DCL clubs stick together the DSL clubs will be forced to either disband and apply for the vacancies in those leagues, or invite applications from the NEDL. Realistically, they can't play with 6 or 7 clubs.
 
DSL will take Seaham Harbour back and from 2013 be an eight club league. They will probably advertise for two additional clubs to join and push to be the next step in the ladder under NEPL 2. If they achieve this they may even attract four clubs for the 2013 season. The NEPL only taking 10 clubs looks likely to have saved the league.

Sweeper said:
I think I am right in saying that they are left with -

Kimblesworth
Burnmoor
Castle Eden
Durham City
Horden
Phili

They will presumably invite applications. Boldon CA and Seaham Harbour were keen to apply this time last year, but at the time I think they expected to be playing in a 14 team DSL that looked a lot stronger than whats on offer now.

I imagine the Harbour will still apply, but there is going to be a push for the remaining 10 DCCL clubs to stick together and take applicants for our two vacancies (Wearmouth and Whiteleas for example have apparently shown interest in the last few years). I expect Boldon CA to take a step back and re-consider their position.

If the DCCL and the DCL clubs stick together the DSL clubs will be forced to either disband and apply for the vacancies in those leagues, or invite applications from the NEDL. Realistically, they can't play with 6 or 7 clubs.
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You've forgotten about Marsden. A lot depends on whether the DSL can negotiate to be the next step down, that being so they'll attract clubs looking to move up the ladder. They may get more interest from Coast League clubs as they'll not be any 'guidelines' ignored this time.
 
LoB said:
DSL will take Seaham Harbour back and from 2013 be an eight club league. They will probably advertise for two additional clubs to join and push to be the next step in the ladder under NEPL 2. If they achieve this they may even attract four clubs for the 2013 season. The NEPL only taking 10 clubs looks likely to have saved the league.



You've forgotten about Marsden. A lot depends on whether the DSL can negotiate to be the next step down, that being so they'll attract clubs looking to move up the ladder. They may get more interest from Coast League clubs as they'll not be any 'guidelines' ignored this time.
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Even with Marsden in the fold, that only makes 8 - long term an 8 team league isn't sustainable.

Surely the TSL would be the third tier? They were probably stronger than the DSL last year so are even more so now. Indeed, with the exception of the top two clubs on the remaining DSL list (both of whom are bankrolled), none of the others would even set the DCCL alight.
 
Sweeper said:
Agreed - but I think you'll see money dominate the new NEPL2 as well. Having a strong junior set up, as the majority of the clubs on the list do have, is less likely to help your 1st XI as you get higher up the pyramid as logically, a youngster has more improving to do before they make the grade. Unless a club already has a strong 1st XI in place that you can bring the odd exceptional junior player into year-on-year, then a junior set-up alone isn't going to help you make a massive leap in standard.

The majority of clubs on that list who rely on their juniors coming through have been doing it for a long time, so nothing's going to change for them and their junior sections aren't going to all of a sudden make them better, or drive their club forward.

What's going to be required for some of the clubs in the new NEPL2 to be competitive is external recruitment at first team level and unfortunately at that level of cricket external recruitment usually means paying out money.
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Of course you are right in that a lot of players will be after money to play in the league and undoubtedly they will get it. It will be a big job but I think the clubs with less financial clout will need to kep a core of what they already have at the club, and add sensibly where possible. Hopefully a few good players from the other leagues will fancy the challenge and won't break the bank.

It will be very interesting to see how this pans out but they are exciting times imo.
 
Sweeper said:
Even with Marsden in the fold, that only makes 8 - long term an 8 team league isn't sustainable.

But short term its sustainable and gives them time to try to attract clubs? Sure they'll survive even if it means taking two clubs from the county league or North East Durham

Surely the TSL would be the third tier? They were probably stronger than the DSL last year so are even more so now. Indeed, with the exception of the top two clubs on the remaining DSL list (both of whom are bankrolled), none of the others would even set the DCCL alight.
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Problem you've got with the NTSL is three fold a) none of their clubs want in the NEPL and therefore re-creating the bottle neck the NEPL are trying to get round given that not a single club have applied for promotion in 11 years and only one club applied to NEPL 2.

b) They play a different format of the game which doesn't appeal to the vast majority of NEPL clubs.
The NEPL have stated they'll only agree to having what effectively would be a feeder league on their terms and only if the 22 clubs making up both divisions are happy with it (sort of).

c) Vast majority of NEPL clubs are Durham based (18 out of 22 member clubs are attached the DCB) wouldnt make sense geographically to relegate them to a Northumberland league.

Every chance they'll be another compromise with the NTSL and DSL on an equal level.
 
LoB said:
Problem you've got with the NTSL is three fold a) none of their clubs want in the NEPL and therefore re-creating the bottle neck the NEPL are trying to get round given that not a single club have applied for promotion in 11 years and only one club applied to NEPL 2.

b) They play a different format of the game which doesn't appeal to the vast majority of NEPL clubs.
The NEPL have stated they'll only agree to having what effectively would be a feeder league on their terms and only if the 22 clubs making up both divisions are happy with it (sort of).

c) Vast majority of NEPL clubs are Durham based (18 out of 22 member clubs are attached the DCB) wouldnt make sense geographically to relegate them to a Northumberland league.

Every chance they'll be another compromise with the NTSL and DSL on an equal level.
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Also the TSL has 2 divisions so would you split those divisions up with a league in the middle, or place the DSL below TSL Div 2 (which looks pretty dire!).

Whichever way the "feeder" leagues go it is a bit of a mess still! The main concern being around where the relegated team goes. I believe there was a suggestion that the relegated team would go back to the league they came from. Fine in theory but again can cause leagues to end up a bit lop sided over the years if 3 are relegated to the DSL to be replaced by teams from the TSL.
 
NorthCountryBoy said:
Re an 8 team DSL would that mean everyone three times or twice with a few cups?
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Surely they will invite applications. Can't see them going with an 8 team league. Few County League teams will be interested I reckon. Esh Winning? Crook?. Maybe some Coast League too although not sure.
 
Norton have applied to the NYSD for 2013 season.They vote on it on the 22nd march
 
I've been asking one or two people about the junior setup for the NEPL in 2013 ad it was mooted that they could set up North and South leagues with teams like Chester le Street, Hetton Lyons, South Shields (amongst others) in the South and South North, Tynemouth and Newcastle (amongst others) in the North. This would make it less onerous for travelling.

Anyone think that this would be feasible? Any drawbacks to such a configuration?
 
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