Can someone please explain to me,

Father Jack Hackett said:
I don't think the lad has mentioned hating them at any point, mind. Criticism and discussion doesn't mean people don't like them, either.
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Difference between an optimist and a pessimist . The glass was almost empty so we were literally down to the dregs , the club was stabilised and the glass is now around half full . Thing is SAFC supporters have short memories as to how bad things were and are of the opinion we are still a big club and what happened at Bolton and Bury wouldn’t happen here , get real folks we WERE a big club now we aren’t we are an EFL 1 club .Stewart Donald lets be honest is not a charity he has done good work but has also been naive and made mistakes , who hasn’t . I am an optimist and think the glass will get fuller , unfortunately a lot of negative posters would try and undermine what has been achieved and continue to be pessimistic and will hold the club back . The supporters of SAFC are renowned for their backing of our team , we need everyone to get behind the side and reverse the downward spiral ,last year we stabilised let’s make sure this year we can start the climb back to where we all think we should be .
 


chrismisterx said:
like what?

please explain what he has done?

I keep hearing that he has worked wonders but not one really says what he has done, heard something about money moving from SAFC to another one of his companies as a loan and some cost cutting that Bain started and was hated for and the revamp of the SoL was thanks to the fantastic effect of our great fans, so apart from PR what has he really done>?
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You're not interested in what he's done, the constraints he's had to work with and the mess we were in before he came in - you just want to moan because we're living within our means, not splashing the cash or living the good times.
 
I don’t think he’s some kind of saint, suppose all will be revealed when the next accounts are released. We’ll find out if he’s been bullshitting or not.

Up til now though I think he’s done a good job.

Combination of no promotion last year, and unfounded accusations that he’s tanked a huge takeover for a few quid have turned some against him.
 
themanagersnot2blame said:
You're not interested in what he's done, the constraints he's had to work with and the mess we were in before he came in - you just want to moan because we're living within our means, not splashing the cash or living the good times.
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Not at all, earned my strips watching some real dross at Roker park over the years, been going to the match since the mid 80's ( aye I know still a young un compared to some of our longer suffering fans )

I am just wondering what he has done that's so special, he paid a few players off to get rid ( anyone could have done that ) did a couple of PR things which is canny but overall I think he has been bang Avg, in fact some of the things he has said and done has made matters worse, leaks about the takeover, banging on about best budgets or budgets that a championship club would be proud of or the whole targeting 100 points, just comes across more like silly banter than a chairman of a fairly large club.

I am at the point where I am happy for the podcasts and other crap like twitter stops and we get to see some results of all this hard work, where is the scouting network he promised, wheres the results on the pitch cause at the moment I feel we are under performing and at the end of the day the buck stops at the top.

I have no idea if this new manager will do well or not, but he will have my support, just like Buxton and butcher and the likes did back in the day, a manager might not be fans top choice but we do tend to give them a chance, even when its not our first choice, I just hope the football improves and we get something to cheer about again.
 
daveybigpotatoes said:
Sorry but a lender can’t just determine the borrower goes into administration. And why would sbc here. Wasn’t their charge over parachutes?
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Of course they can. Any holder of secured debt has the right to appoint administrators the minute they feel the recovery of their debt is in question, and there's nothing the owners of the company can do about it. SBC's charge was a standard fixed and floating charge over all the club's assets. In addition, they had a deed of assignment over money due from the PL; that meant they could raid the club's bank account. The problem last summer was that the amount owing to SBC of £68m exceeded the total of the year 2 and year 3 parachutes (not to mention that the year 3 parachute was receivable, at least in part, after the repayment date for the loan). There was, in fact, a very real prospect of SBC pulling the plug, and this may well have been a factor in why Short acted as he did. In an administration, he would have had no control over the selling process, and was highly likely to receive nothing at all from it.
 
Grumpy Old Man said:
Of course they can. Any holder of secured debt has the right to appoint administrators the minute they feel the recovery of their debt is in question, and there's nothing the owners of the company can do about it. SBC's charge was a standard fixed and floating charge over all the club's assets. In addition, they had a deed of assignment over money due from the PL; that meant they could raid the club's bank account. The problem last summer was that the amount owing to SBC of £68m exceeded the total of the year 2 and year 3 parachutes (not to mention that the year 3 parachute was receivable, at least in part, after the repayment date for the loan). There was, in fact, a very real prospect of SBC pulling the plug, and this may well have been a factor in why Short acted as he did. In an administration, he would have had no control over the selling process, and was highly likely to receive nothing at all from it.
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Interesting,

So in your view if there was no take over would Short have been able to service the debt?

I just cant get my head around how the take over ment short was able to write off so much debt but if he had stayed people said we could have went under? Could Short not have paid off the debt and still kept the club if no buyers had came forward?
 
chriswallace85 said:
Like what?
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Like all the shit deals with players contracts that we had to get rid of, the shit with ndong and the other 1 . Court cases with Alvarez , building a squad that only had 8 players from the first training session. Restructuring the whole club as we were losing a lot of money every year. Even changing the seats as so many on here seemed to class as important. But apart from that yeah they have done nowt
No. 1 is Gary Rowell said:
Nice diversion of my question....
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There is no diversion , your question is pointless. I will criticise if there’s something to have a go about, you crack on whinging
No. 1 is Gary Rowell said:
I don't 'whinge' about positivity, progress, clarity,. You say we will get investment - how do you know? and 'just get on with what'? accepting mediocrity, league one, scrimping on costs?
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We have spent more money than other league 1 clubs, and still have a massive wage bill compared to the rest of the league. They arent scrimping on anything, we ain’t going to just spend millions. I will carry on supporting the team hoping for promotion that’s not accepting anything , you carry on being miserable
 
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chrismisterx said:
Interesting,

So in your view if there was no take over would Short have been able to service the debt?

I just cant get my head around how the take over ment short was able to write off so much debt but if he had stayed people said we could have went under? Could Short not have paid off the debt and still kept the club if no buyers had came forward?
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Effectively that's what he did. The internal debt owed to Drumaville was turned into share capital, and further investment in shares was made to pay off enough of the external debt to SBC to leave £25m, the amount of the parachute used subsequently. The Companies House filing for the Short-owned company that owns the hotel shows that it took out a £25m loan facility with SBC when the takeover went through (in conjunction with Drumaville and another Short company in Bermuda). In effect that last chunk of debt was moved out of Sunderland into Short's other companies pending its final repayment from the 18/19 parachute.

We could have gone under if Short had stayed in charge and not written off the debt. He could have done what he did and stayed in charge, but he had clearly had enough and wanted to move the club on.
 
pwsafc said:
Like all the shit deals with players contracts that we had to get rid of, the shit with ndong and the other 1 . Court cases with Alvarez , building a squad that only had 8 players from the first training session. Restructuring the whole club as we were losing a lot of money every year. Even changing the seats as so many on here seemed to class as important. But apart from that yeah they have done nowt
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Still having problems with players contracts to be honest by all accounts, so no change there. Ndong and his mate played into the clubs hands by breaching there contracts, made it easy for the club imo. Court case was pretty much all messed up before he came and we didn't get a great outcome anyway, so SD and Co being here made no difference to that outcome.

The building the squad aye he had a weak squad but it could be said he sold some of our best assets making the squad weaker at the worst time, selling our goal scorer could end up being the biggest mistake of them all.

PR has been his biggest plus point but even that is coming back to bite him on his arse.

Fact is I think imo any owner could have done what they have, so far he has been bang avg and while hasn't been a complete f**k up yet hasn't really set the world alight either.

I will be the happest fan in the world if our owners make me eat my words and fantastic things happen at the club, but I have this horrid feeling its about to go all wrong.

I dont dislike SD and Co, but not getting the big love in with him either.
 
Grumpy Old Man said:
Of course they can. Any holder of secured debt has the right to appoint administrators the minute they feel the recovery of their debt is in question, and there's nothing the owners of the company can do about it. SBC's charge was a standard fixed and floating charge over all the club's assets. In addition, they had a deed of assignment over money due from the PL; that meant they could raid the club's bank account. The problem last summer was that the amount owing to SBC of £68m exceeded the total of the year 2 and year 3 parachutes (not to mention that the year 3 parachute was receivable, at least in part, after the repayment date for the loan). There was, in fact, a very real prospect of SBC pulling the plug, and this may well have been a factor in why Short acted as he did. In an administration, he would have had no control over the selling process, and was highly likely to receive nothing at all from it.
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sorry but unless there is a breach of covenant or default event how can a lender do this? Was it not term debt that wasn't in breach? If so the lender has no rights to call the debt.
 
chrismisterx said:
Not at all, earned my strips watching some real dross at Roker park over the years, been going to the match since the mid 80's ( aye I know still a young un compared to some of our longer suffering fans )

I am just wondering what he has done that's so special, he paid a few players off to get rid ( anyone could have done that ) did a couple of PR things which is canny but overall I think he has been bang Avg, in fact some of the things he has said and done has made matters worse, leaks about the takeover, banging on about best budgets or budgets that a championship club would be proud of or the whole targeting 100 points, just comes across more like silly banter than a chairman of a fairly large club.

I am at the point where I am happy for the podcasts and other crap like twitter stops and we get to see some results of all this hard work, where is the scouting network he promised, wheres the results on the pitch cause at the moment I feel we are under performing and at the end of the day the buck stops at the top.

I have no idea if this new manager will do well or not, but he will have my support, just like Buxton and butcher and the likes did back in the day, a manager might not be fans top choice but we do tend to give them a chance, even when its not our first choice, I just hope the football improves and we get something to cheer about again.
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Agree mostly that the ‘man of the people’ saying too much on twitter etc. is not the wisest of moves and will probably do little good over time. He has however stopped the rot. The mercenaries have gone, the bad apples seem to have gone, we seem to be living within our means and appear to have a squad of decent characters. The Sunderland of two or three years ago was a toxic place. I trust him to do the right thing, spend money wisely and take the time needed to get us back to where we want to be organically. I am patient enough to wait this out and think we’ll be better for it in the long run.
In summary he hasn’t done anything particularly magical but he hasn’t really done anything wrong! At the end of the day he’s the owner - it’s the job of the players and manager to do something special.
I think the investment in the squad and the appointments made were fair enough - the players and manager have so far failed to get the extra 10% needed to succeed, that’s not SD’s fault.
 
pwsafc said:
Like all the shit deals with players contracts that we had to get rid of, the shit with ndong and the other 1 . Court cases with Alvarez , building a squad that only had 8 players from the first training session. Restructuring the whole club as we were losing a lot of money every year. Even changing the seats as so many on here seemed to class as important. But apart from that yeah they have done nowt
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Players leave - big deal.

What restructuring?
 
chrismisterx said:
How Stewart Donald and Co saved the club?

Keep hearing the same old stuff how we should be thankful as without our wonderful new owners the club would be f**ked etc.

It seems to me Short would have kept us going, I for one don't think in a million years he would have seen us go under, he made mistakes but his heart was in the right place.

Second, apart from some classy PR at the start all SD and co have done is a cost cutting exercise, that was started under Bain who was hated, SD and Co have been in charge for our worst ever finish and really do come across as a couple of chancers that hit lucky with a deal of a life time that's starting to turn sour.

So IMO SD is doing a bang avg job, I think any new owner could have done pretty much the same, difference being these guys had some good PR at the start.

Less than impressed atm and hate the fact because of a few decent bits of PR people think they are some kind of heroes, Short was much more of a hero in my book, came and had a real go and when it went tits up made sure we didn't go under at a canny loss to himself I would think, no way these guys would do the same, I get the feeling it was a quick buy and flip for profit that's going bad for them and why we are now going to end up in a complete shit storm if we don't go up this year.

I don't think in a million years SD would do would Short did to protect the club either.
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ellis contributed of course..but SBC were what mattered..they were the secured creditors (not ellis0 so they could put us into admin.
ellis contribution was huge.but the final part of it wouldnt have happened if new owners hadnt come along.
 
chrismisterx said:
Still having problems with players contracts to be honest by all accounts, so no change there. Ndong and his mate played into the clubs hands by breaching there contracts, made it easy for the club imo. Court case was pretty much all messed up before he came and we didn't get a great outcome anyway, so SD and Co being here made no difference to that outcome.

The building the squad aye he had a weak squad but it could be said he sold some of our best assets making the squad weaker at the worst time, selling our goal scorer could end up being the biggest mistake of them all.

PR has been his biggest plus point but even that is coming back to bite him on his arse.

Fact is I think imo any owner could have done what they have, so far he has been bang avg and while hasn't been a complete f**k up yet hasn't really set the world alight either.

I will be the happest fan in the world if our owners make me eat my words and fantastic things happen at the club, but I have this horrid feeling its about to go all wrong.

I dont dislike SD and Co, but not getting the big love in with him either.
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What contracts?
 
foolzy said:
Anyone that thought he was in it because 'he now loved the club' or because 'he got it', what ever the fuck that means, was naive in the extreme.

He came in, got the club on the cheap to make a profit down the line. I've no problem with that but equally I've got no problem with him getting pelters when things go wrong as he lapped up the attention and applause when things seemed to be going okay.

However he seems to spit his dummy out when he gets any criticism and Charlie gets outright arsey
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its not just criticism is it though...you have bellends threatening them and just calling them names on twitter...its not constructive, its just bile
 
Nozs' Hat said:
Maybe it’s was Donald and Methvens enthusiasm for the project that encouraged Short to do the right thing. You have no idea what Short would have done or how long he would have continued to bail us out for.
Martin Bain showed that simply cost cutting isn’t easy as he did a crap job of it.
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Very difficult to cost cut when your being paid 1.2 million
 

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