Boy starves alongside dad who'd died of heart attack

[Fray Bentos]

There was clearly not much thought of a potential risk if social services just left it a week and knocked again

From what I've read this is not the case.

Social Worker turned up for a meeting at home on the 2nd arranged a few days before but couldn't get an answer. They then tried neighbours and other known addresses but not there either. So then raised it with Manager and Police. I presume the Police part isn't normal for a missed appointment which would suggest they had concerns and this wasn't normal behavior from the Dad.

Then they went to the house on the 4th and again no answer. Contacted the Police again. I've not seen anything in reports I've read confirming if the Police attended either time. The fact they've referred themselves to be investigated may suggest not.

Then the Social Worker managed to track down the landlord who gave access on the 9th.

From how stretched Social Workers are I think they've attended more than they normally would have and probably gone above and beyond managing to track down the Landlord.

Tragic story and may the Dad & Son RIP.

 

[pavarotti1980]

But enough to call round first time , attempt all means of contact, report to management and contact police then call round a further two occasions?

It seems to be reported as a routine visit. Therefore what risk or harm is presented by not answering the door which would necessitate an police response? Aren't the fire brigade the service of choice for forced entries anyway. They certainly are for Tyne and Wear and Northumberland

 

[Five-Quarter]

Do you know how many kids are on the watch list? And how many of them are for relatively minor things? Around 100,000. Should we knock down doors every single time one of their parents isn't in when the social call?

I understand at least one local authority in the region has instructed that all children in similar circumstances to this one must have visit/contact made by the end of next week or so

Tragic there isn't the resource to do such things unless something terrible happens nationally and everyone shits themselves

 

[pavarotti1980]

From what I've read this is not the case.

Social Worker turned up for a meeting at home on the 2nd arranged a few days before but couldn't get an answer. They then tried neighbours and other known addresses but not there either. So then raised it with Manager and Police. I presume the Police part isn't normal for a missed appointment which would suggest they had concerns and this wasn't normal behavior from the Dad.

Then they went to the house on the 4th and again no answer. Contacted the Police again. I've not seen anything in reports I've read confirming if the Police attended either time. The fact they've referred themselves to be investigated may suggest not.

Then the Social Worker managed to track down the landlord who gave access on the 9th.

From how stretched Social Workers are I think they've attended more than they normally would have and probably gone above and beyond managing to track down the Landlord.

Tragic story and may the Dad & Son RIP.

As above are the police the right agency to simply force entry? Are they the right agency to conduct enquiries regarding a social services visit?

 

[Fray Bentos]

My wife works for Child Services and they work closely with the Police. Never heard her mention contacting the Fire Brigade about a Child off the top of my head.

Police actually attend Social Services visits if for example there could be potential for a volatile situation.

Social Workers can't remove children from a home without Parents permission. To enforce this they need the Police to come as they can do it. On this point rules may have changed but this is my understanding since I was last told.

So the Police are the exact agency required to force entry if there are concerns.

 

[Mackem Attack]

I understand at least one local authority in the region has instructed that all children in similar circumstances to this one must have visit/contact made by the end of next week or so

Tragic there isn't the resource to do such things unless something terrible happens nationally and everyone shits themselves

The more tragic thing really is that there are 100,000 parents in the country treating their kids in this way. No idea how anyone could tbh.

 

[BlackOps]

If a child is potentially at risk then aye.

Who is to decide the child was at risk without jumping to conclusions and filling in gaps. Were the two visits organised? I would assume the 2nd visit wasnt organised after failing to conclude the first. Only power of entry for police is sec 17 imminent risk to life. I would ask what suggests this? Could they not have just gone to stay with family to get away from mother? The poor child definitely deserves a full investigation

 

[Five-Quarter]

Who is to decide the child was at risk without jumping to conclusions and filling in gaps. Were the two visits organised? I would assume the 2nd visit wasnt organised after failing to conclude the first. Only power of entry for police is sec 17 imminent risk to life. I would ask what suggests this? Could they not have just gone to stay with family to get away from mother? The poor child definitely deserves a full investigation

I didn't realise until a conversation about an hour ago that the police can and do refuse to respond to welfare check requests from social services

And seemingly from what you've said all it often is, or all it can really be is a knock on the door. Might as well just have a team of volunteer door knockers

 

[BlackOps]

My wife works for Child Services and they work closely with the Police. Never heard her mention contacting the Fire Brigade about a Child off the top of my head.

Police actually attend Social Services visits if for example there could be potential for a volatile situation.

Social Workers can't remove children from a home without Parents permission. To enforce this they need the Police to come as they can do it. On this point rules may have changed but this is my understanding since I was last told.

So the Police are the exact agency required to force entry if there are concerns.

If the concerns are that high and that immediate i would imagine either police or fire. Ambulance sometimes contact fire if they are closer or police dont have resources. Only ARVs can gain access is some occasions and if a firearms incident is ongoing then it will be fire

I didn't realise until a conversation about an hour ago that the police can and do refuse to respond to welfare check requests from social services

And seemingly from what you've said all it often is, or all it can really be is a knock on the door. Might as well just have a team of volunteer door knockers

Absolutely. Some of the requests from social services are ridiculous Speak to cops and there is a belief/running joke that social services wait until 3pm on a friday before letting police know of concerns as when they need more detail, guarantee there is no one still working to give it

If the concerns are that high and that immediate i would imagine either police or fire. Ambulance sometimes contact fire if they are closer or police dont have resources. Only ARVs can gain access is some occasions and if a firearms incident is ongoing then it will be fire


Absolutely. Some of the requests from social services are ridiculous Speak to cops and there is a belief/running joke that social services wait until 3pm on a friday before letting police know of concerns as when they need more detail, guarantee there is no one still working to give it

Not really a thread for smiley emoji actually. Apologies.

 

[monkeytassle]

Not sure it works like that mate. Just being aware of issues doesn’t mean you immediately suspect the kid might die tomorrow

Yea because you can see into the car to see the dog at risk. How do the police know there’s a kid at risk? Just because someone doesn’t answer the door doesn’t mean there is an imminent threat to life. I’ve read nothing at all to suggest alarm bells should have been raised, especially if he had a history of poor timekeeping

Well the boy died and the police have self referred. Those are the facts.

 

[Epping]

Why else would social services be calling round multiple occasions? They reported to management who contacted police after the first visit? You wouldn't do that if there wasn't doubt in mind would you?

From what I understand it was a once a month check up

 

[Mackem Attack]

Well the boy died and the police have self referred. Those are the facts.

That’s standard police practice

 

[monkeytassle]

That’s standard police practice

No it isn't

 

[Billy Fish]

He wasn't on the highest level of risk register.

In some respects it's as well he was on the authorities radar or he could have gone weeks without anyone going in.

 

[Mackem Attack]

No it isn't

K

 

[Sunlun79]

If the concerns are that high and that immediate i would imagine either police or fire. Ambulance sometimes contact fire if they are closer or police dont have resources. Only ARVs can gain access is some occasions and if a firearms incident is ongoing then it will be fire


Absolutely. Some of the requests from social services are ridiculous Speak to cops and there is a belief/running joke that social services wait until 3pm on a friday before letting police know of concerns as when they need more detail, guarantee there is no one still working to give it


Not really a thread for smiley emoji actually. Apologies.

This I can well believe about social services waiting until 3pm on a Friday.

I lived next door to a social worker, who admitted she went into social work as she was noisy. She was horrific, would often try tell myself and other neighbours in depth stories including names and locations of children that had been adopted.

One case her ‘client’ had gone off to Scotland whilst pregnant and she was desperate for her to give birth up there so she had less work.

She had two kids of her own, but couldn’t be bothered with them she was a chain smoking, boozing lazy cow. She spent most of lockdown sunbathing and had to be bailed out on numerous occasions as she fell behind on her workload.

Fortunately for people in need she’s no longer working.

I’m sure there are amazing social workers out there but my experience is that a lot simply can’t be arsed and don’t have the life skills needed to succeed in this profession.

This I can well believe about social services waiting until 3pm on a Friday.

I lived next door to a social worker, who admitted she went into social work as she was noisy. She was horrific, would often try tell myself and other neighbours in depth stories including names and locations of children that had been adopted.

One case her ‘client’ had gone off to Scotland whilst pregnant and she was desperate for her to give birth up there so she had less work.

She had two kids of her own, but couldn’t be bothered with them she was a chain smoking, boozing lazy cow. She spent most of lockdown sunbathing and had to be bailed out on numerous occasions as she fell behind on her workload.

Fortunately for people in need she’s no longer working.

I’m sure there are amazing social workers out there but my experience is that a lot simply can’t be arsed and don’t have the life skills needed to succeed in this profession.

*Nosey*

 

[Five-Quarter]

This I can well believe about social services waiting until 3pm on a Friday.

I lived next door to a social worker, who admitted she went into social work as she was noisy. She was horrific, would often try tell myself and other neighbours in depth stories including names and locations of children that had been adopted.

One case her ‘client’ had gone off to Scotland whilst pregnant and she was desperate for her to give birth up there so she had less work.

She had two kids of her own, but couldn’t be bothered with them she was a chain smoking, boozing lazy cow. She spent most of lockdown sunbathing and had to be bailed out on numerous occasions as she fell behind on her workload.

Fortunately for people in need she’s no longer working.

I’m sure there are amazing social workers out there but my experience is that a lot simply can’t be arsed and don’t have the life skills needed to succeed in this profession.

*Nosey*

Sounds like someone I used to class as a family member

Was a social worker (but don't think she is anymore)

Horrible piece of work. Damage everywhere she went. Became somewhat infamous in the local area for trouble/affairs. Screwed up her own kids. Police and social services involvement of her own

But she had this constant "I'm a social worker you know" line. Like she was a god

Pretty sure she bailed out of the profession for whatever reason

 

[Sunlun79]

Sounds like someone I used to class as a family member

Was a social worker (but don't think she is anymore)

Horrible piece of work. Damage everywhere she went. Became somewhat infamous in the local area for trouble/affairs. Screwed up her own kids. Police and social services involvement of her own

But she had this constant "I'm a social worker you know" line. Like she was a god

Pretty sure she bailed out of the profession for whatever reason

Sounds like the same person!

This person had affairs, totally messed her kids heads up and had social work involvement.

Also took the moral high ground with almost everyone she met thinking she was above everyone whilst leaving her kids alone to see her bloke, letting them use knives and fry chips when they were 7 years old and letting them walk around like tramps.

 

[Five-Quarter]

Sounds like the same person!

This person had affairs, totally messed her kids heads up and had social work involvement.

Also took the moral high ground with almost everyone she met thinking she was above everyone whilst leaving her kids alone to see her bloke, letting them use knives and fry chips when they were 7 years old and letting them walk around like tramps.

To be honest I double read your post wondering if it was the same person

Very similar. Decided to go into social work as a way of getting out of a job to be in education for a few years and claim whatever student loans etc

She used to informally assess people....I think what's going on is....I'm a social worker you know...

Haven't heard anything about her kids for a long time but they really were in a mess

My daughter was really close to hers but all contact had to end for the good of my own

Like you say, loads of good social workers. My ex is one and she seems highly thought of. But probably like rogue police officers etc there's some completely unsuitable

 

[Sunlun79]

To be honest I double read your post wondering if it was the same person

Very similar. Decided to go into social work as a way of getting out of a job to be in education for a few years and claim whatever student loans etc

She used to informally assess people....I think what's going on is....I'm a social worker you know...

Haven't heard anything about her kids for a long time but they really were in a mess

My daughter was really close to hers but all contact had to end for the good of my own

Like you say, loads of good social workers. My ex is one and she seems highly thought of. But probably like rogue police officers etc there's some completely unsuitable

The similarities are unbelievable, exactly what this person did, claimed loans and bursary’s.

Would plead poverty but then student loan day would come and she would be chain smoking fags and ordering takeaways. She’s a benefit claimant now so the loans will no doubt never be paid back.

The poor daughter once went to a soft play party with tights full of holes it was heartbreaking.

The son had massive issues which she need addressed and would say it’s just a bit of social anxiety. He lives with the Dad now, he’s a loose cannon like but the better of the two.

Despite this there are good social workers, who have gone into it for all of the right reasons.