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Booing prior to the kick off.

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maghater said:
No but prioritising one group of people above another is. Is taking the knee having an impact? I would suggest otherwise, and if you get a not insignificant number of people booing it, then it is as I said counter productive. Kick it out wasn't a great success, but having a LGBT day, with easily identifiable colours and emblems certainly is.
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My kids really got into discussing race,because of the knee.They even done a project at school.Loads of kids did.Rashford is a brilliant role model.If it opens the discussion to even just a couple of kids,like mine,then it's been a success.People even booed martin Luther kings marches in selma,Washington etc.,but people now look back thinking the marches were good things.So I don't think it's counter productive at all.Old racists are gonna stay old racists,but the kids prefer equality!
Waskerly Mackem said:
As said elsewhere, it has become meaningless as nothing has been achieved by it. So unless there is a pressing event that morally necessitates an action at the time continue with it?

I've problems with how it came to be a popular gesture, given my aforementioned observations with George Floyd. It was very wrong the way he died, even if he was a recidivism. But I'm not taking the knee given it has become linked with someone who was a repeat offender. As @1879 comments, it's use at some clubs is actually hypocritical (take the knee at NUFC, fans clap, Saudi owners with dubious backgrounds - noting we'd be be seen as inferior in Arabia as we're not Muslim).

I've already said I'm not among the booers as that conveys the wrong message too.

But it comes down to the fact I'm at a game for a football match and not a political protest.
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Has nothing been achieved by it?in your eyes maybe
 
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Skylon said:
Just a couple of things.You can refer to right wing people, who get outraged at everything,as snowflakes as well.Then you say it's a top notch gesture,but then you say it comes from a criminal(getting killed,by the way),so you cannot support it.And I would just like to also add,I don't care if George Floyd was a criminal.Nobody deserves to be killed,yes killed(not an unfortunate death,purposefully killed),like he was.The taking the knee gesture,has also been around long before this.And,the likes of my son and daughter,have asked me some important questions about racism,and morals in general,because they have seen players taking the knee.They never even started a discussion because of the kick it out campaign.It is well meaning,but rather invisible.Oh,and you can be racist and moderate centre left ,you know?
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So therefore anyone opting not to take part or support the knee gesture, you're implying needs to take a long hard look at themselves?

Also you're hinting therefore people who choose not to take part (in my case as I think it's not achieved anything) are thus, unknown even to themselves, racist?

You don't know anything about me to effectively make that intimation. Okay, I'll concede no-one is perfect but my life has followed anything but a racist path. I spent several years in academia (research) when I was younger. Racists don't last that long in that environment, believe me, where diversity reigns supreme.

If you want an icon or figurehead for equality, George Floyd's criminal background makes a big difference to alot of people if you want to win them to your cause.
Skylon said:
My kids really got into discussing race,because of the knee.They even done a project at school.Loads of kids did.Rashford is a brilliant role model.If it opens the discussion to even just a couple of kids,like mine,then it's been a success.People even booed martin Luther kings marches in selma,Washington etc.,but people now look back thinking the marches were good things.So I don't think it's counter productive at all.Old racists are gonna stay old racists,but the kids prefer equality!

Has nothing been achieved by it?in your eyes maybe
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Has legislation been passed to clamp down further on institutional and systemic racism in society in the UK?
 
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Are you purposely missing out the bit where I said my kids have asked some important questions about race,as have a lot of children?Not taking part in what?taking the knee?I don't take part,I just don't boo.But I think it is brilliant.Is the only way to achieve something,to have legislation made about it?nope.What did you research at college?how to get the wrong end of the stick.
Waskerly Mackem said:
So therefore anyone opting not to take part or support the knee gesture, you're implying needs to take a long hard look at themselves?

Also you're hinting therefore people who choose not to take part (in my case as I think it's not achieved anything) are thus, unknown even to themselves, racist?

You don't know anything about me to effectively make that intimation. Okay, I'll concede no-one is perfect but my life has followed anything but a racist path. I spent several years in academia (research) when I was younger. Racists don't last that long in that environment, believe me, where diversity reigns supreme.

If you want an icon or figurehead for equality, George Floyd's criminal background makes a big difference to alot of people if you want to win them to your cause.

Has legislation been passed to clamp down further on institutional and systemic racism in society in the UK?
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Wearson said:
I can’t believe there are people on here defending the gammons that boo a team (even their own team when we did it iirc) for taking the knee at the SoL.
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I can. Stupid racist people defending morons, why is that so hard to believe?
 
Norton said:
I can. Stupid racist people defending morons, why is that so hard to believe?
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It's often considered poor form to use that word these days tbh.

Some people would call it ignorant as it's origin is actually a medical term.

Minefield this PC malarkey isn't it?
 
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Skylon said:
My kids really got into discussing race,because of the knee.They even done a project at school.Loads of kids did.Rashford is a brilliant role model.If it opens the discussion to even just a couple of kids,like mine,then it's been a success.People even booed martin Luther kings marches in selma,Washington etc.,but people now look back thinking the marches were good things.So I don't think it's counter productive at all.Old racists are gonna stay old racists,but the kids prefer equality!

Has nothing been achieved by it?in your eyes maybe
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:lol:

You've had a conversation with your kids about it?

What about in general? A few months of politicians making the right noises in the face of the initial protests then everything goes back to the way it was before as people get on with their lives.

You come across as someone who gets upset if some doesn't agree to the letter of what you say.

A snowflake!!!
 
Waskerly Mackem said:
:lol:

You've had a conversation with your kids about it?

What about in general? A few months of politicians making the right noises in the face of the initial protests then everything goes back to the way it was before as people get on with their lives.

You come across as someone who gets upset if some doesn't agree to the letter of what you say.

A snowflake!!!
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As has been pointed out numerous times, there is a massive difference between disagreeing with the knee and actively booing it.

This thread is about the latter.
 
Waskerly Mackem said:
:lol:

You've had a conversation with your kids about it?

What about in general? A few months of politicians making the right noises in the face of the initial protests then everything goes back to the way it was before as people get on with their lives.

You come across as someone who gets upset if some doesn't agree to the letter of what you say.

A snowflake!!!
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What an absolute car crash of a post this is.
 
It was the first game I’d been to with my wife and kids and I have to saw I was embarrassed by the boos. Someone behind us thought it was the Gillingham fans booing us not taking the knee and seemed annoyed by that.

I don’t understand why the club stopped the players doing it. I wonder how it makes our black players/supporters feel to see that and hear the boos when other clubs take the knee.
 
thornton15 said:
It was the first game I’d been to with my wife and kids and I have to saw I was embarrassed by the boos. Someone behind us thought it was the Gillingham fans booing us not taking the knee and seemed annoyed by that.

I don’t understand why the club stopped the players doing it. I wonder how it makes our black players/supporters feel to see that and hear the boos when other clubs take the knee.
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It's about all kinds of prejudice, not just about black people.

Some would say you're ignoring other races, groups, etc and only thinking about blacks.

I wouldn't but therein lies the confusion.
 
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ClarenceBoddicker said:
If you blanket don't like white South Africans because of your personal experience with the white South African(s) you have already encountered this is prejudice/xenophobia.

I'm not sure how the colour is relevant in your anecdote, mind unless you're going for the "John Terry defence".
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@Bear Heed now I disagree with most of what he has said but I get his point on sub-conscious bias. For example I've met and got on with 95% of scouse's and about 10% of Mancs therefore I generally assume scouse's are canny and Manc's need some diligence. Likewise my experience makes me love the limited number of Kiwi's I've met compared to the limited number of South African's I've interacted with. Doesn't mean I think they are all knackers just that I need to be aware of my bias to give people a fair crack of the whip.
 
Even in jest, as above, it can been seen that booing is a laughable action.
Don’t do it, unless you want to look like a buffoon.
 
Flip said:
@Bear Heed now I disagree with most of what he has said but I get his point on sub-conscious bias. For example I've met and got on with 95% of scouse's and about 10% of Mancs therefore I generally assume scouse's are canny and Manc's need some diligence. Likewise my experience makes me love the limited number of Kiwi's I've met compared to the limited number of South African's I've interacted with. Doesn't mean I think they are all knackers just that I need to be aware of my bias to give people a fair crack of the whip.
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Thanks for that, it's good to know that not everyone sees everything only as black or white and can be honest about their preferences.

To answer you, and a previous point, I'd clarify what I said about South Africans. I was in Europe and involved in a large project involving many countries. There were VIP delegates, and staff, from all over the world so a real mix. I was mainly working with the staff, during the day, and at dinners or events in the evening with the delegates.

The Europeans, Americans, etc, had good teams whereby everyone was generall equal. The South African delegation were very awkward to deal with and eventually became a little isolated as people avoided them. That only increased their general spikiness and bombastic nature.

Part of the reluctance of people to mix was that the white people amongst them, mainly delegates, were incredibly rude and sometimes openly racist towards the, mainly black, workers. At first I'd pull them up on the racism whereupon they'd become sarcastic, sometimes slightly aggressive. They'd 'circle the wagons' and loudly defend themselves until they succeeded in shouting you down.

I'd 'get a dig in' by loudly laughing at the bar with the black lads who were great crack, the white people would then shun me the next day. So I now avoid white S. Africans and have a hefty bias against them. Some people would call me racist because of that and they may be right. But I still believe everyone has races/nationalities/ethnicities they favour above others. If we all had to list them all, in order of preference, someone would come bottom.

Ironically Ukrainians would've moved up the 'league table' recently despite having a very poor record of racism themselves.
 
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