Ben Foakes

mackembhoy said:
Crawley scored massive double ton at 3.

He's not had the chance to cement himself that spot due to burns missing Sri Lanka and then getting injured.

If he then comes back in he's gonna be opening if they play Bairstow at 3
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We really need Crawley to get a run in summer, he is a vital part of winning in Australia or even doing well, picked as a player who is good against quick bowling and good off the back foot both sides of wicket

Its a bit of a nuisence this series as if its gonna be played on really spinning wickets, then its gonna get players like Crawley, Sibley etc out of form, when they wont be anything like the series we play in Australia

This is why resting Bairstow for me was so stupid, the only place he plays number 3 is on spinning wickets, its perfect for him, he can open against spin. Rest him in the summer, unlikely he will keep his place

Strange how the batting can go from looking solid to having no idea who will play in a few tests.
 


Foakes needs a fair run. Ultimately he averages more than Buttler in both Tests and FC, and he's a better keeper than Buttler - 5 stumpings in 6 Tests v 1 stumping in 50 Tests isn't just RNG. He should have had that run 2 years ago.
 
scaly_piscine said:
Foakes needs a fair run. Ultimately he averages more than Buttler in both Tests and FC, and he's a better keeper than Buttler - 5 stumpings in 6 Tests v 1 stumping in 50 Tests isn't just RNG. He should have had that run 2 years ago.
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100%.

The way he's been treated by England has been disgusting.
 
Voice of fair play said:
After the year Buttler has had with both runs and improvement of his keeping it should not even be a debate whether he should be in side, not only has he scored runs he looked so good playing a big part in wining tests batting in the fourth innings of a couple of matches.
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He will return when available. Harsh on foakes but I’ve said it for a long time, he is part of the key group, with root and stokes, who start when required
 
scaly_piscine said:
Foakes needs a fair run. Ultimately he averages more than Buttler in both Tests and FC, and he's a better keeper than Buttler - 5 stumpings in 6 Tests v 1 stumping in 50 Tests isn't just RNG. He should have had that run 2 years ago.
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Buttler over the last year and half has adapted really well to batting in test cricket as well as improving his keeping.

His inning starts when we near enough beaten, against Pakistan to win the game was superb and he batted well in Sri Lanka, again playing a vital innings in the fourth innings to help win the game.

Now that he seems to be cracking it we should not be dropping him now, which they will not.
 
Voice of fair play said:
Buttler over the last year and half has adapted really well to batting in test cricket as well as improving his keeping.

His inning starts when we near enough beaten, against Pakistan to win the game was superb and he batted well in Sri Lanka, again playing a vital innings in the fourth innings to help win the game.

Now that he seems to be cracking it we should not be dropping him now, which they will not.
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If you pick anyone averaging ~35 they'll have a good run you can pick out eventually. Which also coincides with him batting at 6 a lot, and playing a lot of spin-dominated scenarios. It's incredible how different his records are between batting 6, and batting 7/8. He hasn't scored a half-century batting further down the order since Sep 2018. Batting at 6 he averages over 50. Everywhere else 30 or lower and the strike rate is basically the same wherever he bats.

This doesn't show adaptability. He hasn't cracked how to bat at 7, which is where he could add a lot of value if he were a Gilchrist-lite. But he ain't. It's a myth.

Foakes' record is still better, and he's a better keeper. So deserves a run to show whether his batting can stand up, or not. I'd also be inclined to have Buttler bat at 6 if he's in the side, even if it means moving Pope to 7.
 
scaly_piscine said:
If you pick anyone averaging ~35 they'll have a good run you can pick out eventually. Which also coincides with him batting at 6 a lot, and playing a lot of spin-dominated scenarios. It's incredible how different his records are between batting 6, and batting 7/8. He hasn't scored a half-century batting further down the order since Sep 2018. Batting at 6 he averages over 50. Everywhere else 30 or lower and the strike rate is basically the same wherever he bats.

This doesn't show adaptability. He hasn't cracked how to bat at 7, which is where he could add a lot of value if he were a Gilchrist-lite. But he ain't. It's a myth.

Foakes' record is still better, and he's a better keeper. So deserves a run to show whether his batting can stand up, or not. I'd also be inclined to have Buttler bat at 6 if he's in the side, even if it means moving Pope to 7.
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Firstly Pope far too good to be seven, secondly far to much attention is paid to stats and averages on here, there a yardstick yes, but not the be and end all, as your Buttler stat proves, it will be a lot easier for Buttler to bat and 7 than 6 yet like you say his record is better, it’s coincidental nothing else, it’s not that he has not cracked batting at 7!

Always confuses me why overall stats are used as a argument and guide rather than current form, somebody who may have scored loads of runs 7 years ago in the county championship upping their FC career average should not be used as a guideline of who to pick now!

It should be current form and Buttler by anyone’s standard is in very good form, he is also the man for when under pressure, the fact his first class record is not brilliant because he may not have scored loads of runs 5 years ago in the county championship I find irrelevant.

As a example of my point in another sport Patrick Bamford overall record in the premier league for scoring goals is terrible, yet at the moment he is in brilliant form, can you imagine Leeds dropping him on the basis that his career stats are not good!

Of course not.

Cricket to me is about picking players on form, players who have the character to win games when the pressure is on, and over the last 18 months Buttler has shown that in abundance.
 
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scaly_piscine said:
Foakes needs a fair run. Ultimately he averages more than Buttler in both Tests and FC, and he's a better keeper than Buttler - 5 stumpings in 6 Tests v 1 stumping in 50 Tests isn't just RNG. He should have had that run 2 years ago.
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He’s getting a fair run will probably be playing the next 4 tests
scaly_piscine said:
If you pick anyone averaging ~35 they'll have a good run you can pick out eventually. Which also coincides with him batting at 6 a lot, and playing a lot of spin-dominated scenarios. It's incredible how different his records are between batting 6, and batting 7/8. He hasn't scored a half-century batting further down the order since Sep 2018. Batting at 6 he averages over 50. Everywhere else 30 or lower and the strike rate is basically the same wherever he bats.

This doesn't show adaptability. He hasn't cracked how to bat at 7, which is where he could add a lot of value if he were a Gilchrist-lite. But he ain't. It's a myth.

Foakes' record is still better, and he's a better keeper. So deserves a run to show whether his batting can stand up, or not. I'd also be inclined to have Buttler bat at 6 if he's in the side, even if it means moving Pope to 7.
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Pope at 7 is a f***ing ridiculous suggestion
Voice of fair play said:
Buttler over the last year and half has adapted really well to batting in test cricket as well as improving his keeping.

His inning starts when we near enough beaten, against Pakistan to win the game was superb and he batted well in Sri Lanka, again playing a vital innings in the fourth innings to help win the game.

Now that he seems to be cracking it we should not be dropping him now, which they will not.
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scaly_piscine said:
If you pick anyone averaging ~35 they'll have a good run you can pick out eventually. Which also coincides with him batting at 6 a lot, and playing a lot of spin-dominated scenarios. It's incredible how different his records are between batting 6, and batting 7/8. He hasn't scored a half-century batting further down the order since Sep 2018. Batting at 6 he averages over 50. Everywhere else 30 or lower and the strike rate is basically the same wherever he bats.

This doesn't show adaptability. He hasn't cracked how to bat at 7, which is where he could add a lot of value if he were a Gilchrist-lite. But he ain't. It's a myth.

Foakes' record is still better, and he's a better keeper. So deserves a run to show whether his batting can stand up, or not. I'd also be inclined to have Buttler bat at 6 if he's in the side, even if it means moving Pope to 7.
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Daft having the discussion now. He’s playing the rest of this series and possibky the next couple. If he has a good run with the bat there’s a good argument to have. If he has a run of low scores there isn’t. Let’s see how he does.
 
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scaly_piscine said:
Foakes would need to be Chris Read with the bat to be worse than Buttler at 7. If Buttler's such a good bat, he can bat at 6 and provide value to the team. At 7 he virtually never does owt with the tail. He seems to either get out being aggressive or get out to the new ball.

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Again your over thinking things it’s not about the runs Buttler scores at 6 or 7. He had just had a great year for England and Foakes may well have a run of 5 tests in a row. If he gets a load of runs in those games there will be a real discussion to be had and if he doesn’t then obviously there won’t be. It’s in Foakes hands to make this a worthwhile discussion point.
 
I would trust Butler over Foakes anytime with more runs. There is more to keeping wicket than a flashy stumping down legside...Colin Metson best keeper ever in the history of the game in my opinion (also acknowledged by Alan Knott and Jack Russell to a degree in his book) but in the modern game Metson would not get a first class county these days. Its no accident that most county’s and international teams go for the most dynamic batsmen rather than the better keeper. It’s about the all round package than the keeping.
 

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