Afghans falling from planes leaving Kabul.

Swindon On Tour said:
Unreal and tragic.
Couldn’t help thinking today of those brave servicemen and women that have lost their life over this conflict and for what?
Even difficult typing that incase anyone on here reads it and knows someone that has been caught up in it.
Time and time again you question the human race.
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You're right to say it though. It's for absolutely nothing. The good work that has been done there will quickly all be removed/reversed/destroyed.

We know what is coming to huge numbers of people there.
Wearside Wanderer II said:
The US & Uk have made a right shit show of this.
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Yep. Awful awful decision from Biden. Not much we can do without them so I'll leave it in his court.
 
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Wearside Wanderer II said:
The US & Uk have made a right shit show of this.
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TBF, the Afghanis will have known for months (possibly years) of the intention of the US, UK and NATO to withdraw from the country - they will have known that we couldn't stay indefinitely. Now, they may have chosen to ignore the deadlines and when the US eventually withdrew from Bagram (literally overnight) it was perhaps a shock - but this was when the Afghan National Army (ANA) and Afghan National Police (ANP) stepped up and carried on the security role.

The biggest issue is that the all military forces (governments) have spent literally billions on training the ANA and ANP, and provided them with good equipment and the necessary training on how to use it. The trouble is that the ANA and ANP troops operating the equipment need to have fighting spirit also and I'm afraid when the time came they just ran away or turned sides - and they can only blame themselves for that. The disaster is that as a consequence of the lack of security many innocent people are embroiled in this and many have no way out... let's hope that we can get our UK nationals and local allies out of the country safely.
 
Mercia Blackcat said:
I guess they know the Taliban better than we do and don't believe their reassurances.

Afghanistan has a fifty mile border with China and I suppose it's their turn now to encourage stability after Russia, the USA and NATO have all failed. Good luck with that especially considering China's treatment of Muslims within China.
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If a story I heard is true, the Chinese might just succeed as they don't mess about.

I was in the Far West of China in 2006 before it got put out of bounds to most westerners.

A report got round of Chinese soldiers killing 14 militants in a gun battle near their Western border and about 40 km from where I was at one point.

The unofficial story was the Chinese had got the upper hand and managed to capture them alive. They then got them on their knees and shot them at point blank range.

The Chinese will play just as dirty as the Taliban given the above and there's other stories I could tell. The above tops them however.
 
This was always plan A. Looking at the numbers from 2017 its obvious that the war in Afghanistan had been a complete success and attained, indeed exceeded, every one of its aims.

20. Textron
• Arms sales: $4.1 billion
19. Naval Group
• Arms sales: $4.1 billion
18. Leidos
• Arms sales: $4.4 billion
17. Rolls-Royce
• Arms sales: $4.4 billion
16. Honeywell International
• Arms sales: $4.5 billion
15. United Shipbuilding Corp.
• Arms sales: $5.0 billion
14. United Aircraft Corp.
• Arms sales: $6.4 billion
13. Huntington Ingalls Industries
• Arms sales: $6.5 billion
12. L-3 Technologies
• Arms sales: $7.8 billion
11. United Technologies Corp.
• Arms sales: $7.8 billion
10. Almaz-Antey
• Arms sales: $8.6 billion
9. Leonardo
• Arms sales: $8.9 billion
8. Thales
• Arms sales: $9.0 billion
7. Airbus Group
• Arms sales: $11.3 billion
6. General Dynamics Corp.
• Arms sales: $19.5 billion
5. Northrop Grumman Corp.
• Arms sales: $22.4 billion
4. BAE Systems
• Arms sales: $22.9 billion
3. Raytheon
• Arms sales: $23.9 billion
2. Boeing
• Arms sales: $26.9 billion
1. Lockheed Martin Corp.
• Arms sales: $44.9 billion
 
Waskerly Mackem said:
If a story I heard is true, the Chinese might just succeed as they don't mess about.

I was in the Far West of China in 2006 before it got put out of bounds to most westerners.

A report got round of Chinese soldiers killing 14 militants in a gun battle near their Western border and about 40 km from where I was at one point.

The unofficial story was the Chinese had got the upper hand and managed to capture them alive. They then got them on their knees and shot them at point blank range.

The Chinese will play just as dirty as the Taliban given the above and there's other stories I could tell. The above tops them however.
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Countries you have been to

I think you're confusing country with sovereign state petal. coun·try Noun A nation with its own government, occupying a particular territory. The people of a nation.
www.readytogo.net www.readytogo.net

remember when you said you didn't post as yyy :cool:
 
Waskerly Mackem said:
If a story I heard is true, the Chinese might just succeed as they don't mess about.

I was in the Far West of China in 2006 before it got put out of bounds to most westerners.

A report got round of Chinese soldiers killing 14 militants in a gun battle near their Western border and about 40 km from where I was at one point.

The unofficial story was the Chinese had got the upper hand and managed to capture them alive. They then got them on their knees and shot them at point blank range.

The Chinese will play just as dirty as the Taliban given the above and there's other stories I could tell. The above tops them however.
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I've no doubt the Chinese can be ruthless.

After the fall of Vietnam a 200,000 strong Chinese army invaded North Vietnam and came across 20,000 Vietcong. Even though they were outnumbered10 to 1 the Vietcong gave them a "bloody nose" and the Chinese lost 20,000 troops I think and soon withdrew.

The Taliban are just as fanatical as the Vietcong and I'm sure they accept Chinese support and take the money but you can't really buy off religious fanatics for very long.
 
Mercia Blackcat said:
I've no doubt the Chinese can be ruthless.

After the fall of Vietnam a 200,000 strong Chinese army invaded North Vietnam and came across 20,000 Vietcong. Even though they were outnumbered10 to 1 the Vietcong gave them a "bloody nose" and the Chinese lost 20,000 troops I think and soon withdrew.

The Taliban are just as fanatical as the Vietcong and I'm sure they accept Chinese support and take the money but you can't really buy off religious fanatics for very long.
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I don't know, the Crusades show us that religious fervour burns off and you are then just left with a bunch of mercanaries
 
The US and the UK knew exactly what would happen. One has to question their motives too for allowing this to happen, instead of just saying people have died in vain, but oh no we are the good guys.....
The Taliban, the US, the UK all in it together.
 
Mercia Blackcat said:
I guess they know the Taliban better than we do and don't believe their reassurances.

Afghanistan has a fifty mile border with China and I suppose it's their turn now to encourage stability after Russia, the USA and NATO have all failed. Good luck with that especially considering China's treatment of Muslims within China.
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Russia tried, failed
NATO tried , failed
Best of luck China
 
Bob Fleming said:
Yep. Awful awful decision from Biden. Not much we can do without them so I'll leave it in his court.
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So I totally get why we should be pulling out at some point - it was always an unwinnable war. But what’s Biden’s game here - they’ve had years to plan for this withdrawal and if they weren’t planned they should have waited before withdrawing. Visas for the right people, that kind of stuff. I get why there will never be an orderly handover to the Taliban, but surely there was another option?

Im genuinely distressed that we are leaving people to die, women to be raped and taken as slaves and people who aided us to be tortured and murdered. That’s how terrorists are made.
 

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