5th test the oval

[essex boy]

He had a few games for Yorkshire by the way weren't they playing 20-20 when ashes started

There are ways and means to get meaningful cricket if required. He had last played a test match on the 25th August until he played his next on 1st of June 2023 so almost 10 months. That is huge amount of time from one test to another more so when he would have been nothing for at least 6 months due to his injury. In the immediate build up to the first Ashes test on the 16th of June he last played a meaningful game against Durham on the 11th May. In his only two first class games of cricket (he did not bat against Ireland and a county 2nd XI would likely beat them) he had a top score of 36.

Stokes said he wanted him in the side from the off, he was woefully undercooked, unsurprisingly and we were 2-1 down in the Ashes before he got going in the last test.

We have only lost 3 of our last 15 test matches and could easily have won all 15. We have that record playing some tremendous stuff yet You talk as if this is the death of English cricket. Give yourself a shake man

Death of English cricket? When did I say that? We have lost an Ashes series at home inside 4 tests (or cant win the Urn). Australia have one player they struggle to replace and he went down crocked in the second test to make things easier for us.

England should have beat Australia, they were there for the taking and have not done so. All some do is divert attention is to say how good England have been the year previous

 

[chopsfc007]

There are ways and means to get meaningful cricket if required. He had last played a test match on the 25th August until he played his next on 1st of June 2023 so almost 10 months. That is huge amount of time from one test to another more so when he would have been nothing for at least 6 months due to his injury. In the immediate build up to the first Ashes test on the 16th of June he last played a meaningful game against Durham on the 11th May. In his only two first class games of cricket (he did not bat against Ireland and a county 2nd XI would likely beat them) he had a top score of 36.

Stokes said he wanted him in the side from the off, he was woefully undercooked, unsurprisingly and we were 2-1 down in the Ashes before he got going in the last test.


Death of English cricket? When did I say that? We have lost an Ashes series at home inside 4 tests (or cant win the Urn). Australia have one player they struggle to replace and he went down crocked in the second test to make things easier for us.

England should have beat Australia, they were there for the taking and have not done so. All some do is divert attention is to say how good England have been the year previous

Under cooked but got a score in his first game back where should he have gone to play then

 

[essex boy]

Under cooked but got a score in his first game back where should he have gone to play then

Do you think he was undercooked along with Ali? Do you think Jimmy is being picked on form?

You strike me as someone that listens to the media and as Stokes is still riding the crest of a wave the media are not asking questions so neither do you. In time, if Stokes continues as is, questions will get asked more frequently. Australia have the firepower to expose poor selections, other nations by and large less so

 

[chopsfc007]

Do you think he was undercooked along with Ali? Do you think Jimmy is being picked on form?

You strike me as someone that listens to the media and as Stokes is still riding the crest of a wave the media are not asking questions so neither do you. In time, if Stokes continues as is, questions will get asked more frequently. Australia have the firepower to expose poor selections, other nations by and large less so

The problem with your logic is 2-3 bad games and you would change people

 

[Jack Torrance]

There are ways and means to get meaningful cricket if required. He had last played a test match on the 25th August until he played his next on 1st of June 2023 so almost 10 months. That is huge amount of time from one test to another more so when he would have been nothing for at least 6 months due to his injury. In the immediate build up to the first Ashes test on the 16th of June he last played a meaningful game against Durham on the 11th May. In his only two first class games of cricket (he did not bat against Ireland and a county 2nd XI would likely beat them) he had a top score of 36.

Stokes said he wanted him in the side from the off, he was woefully undercooked, unsurprisingly and we were 2-1 down in the Ashes before he got going in the last test.


Death of English cricket? When did I say that? We have lost an Ashes series at home inside 4 tests (or cant win the Urn). Australia have one player they struggle to replace and he went down crocked in the second test to make things easier for us.

England should have beat Australia, they were there for the taking and have not done so. All some do is divert attention is to say how good England have been the year previous

Why should we have beat Australia? If it wasn’t for the weather we might be in the position to do so but the way people have went on sound like they expected us to beat them 4 or 5/0. It’s a strong Australia side

 

[chunkyshanhawk53]

Posting without comment

Essex Boy - correct again

quote from the daily mail............ ''When there is something in the pitch or the weather suits them, as at The Oval, England remain a formidable proposition'' the articles goes on...... ''yet when the sun shines and the pitch is flat as at Headingley and again at Lord's, the hosts...

www.readytogo.net

 

[rentaghost]

Do you think he was undercooked along with Ali? Do you think Jimmy is being picked on form?

You strike me as someone that listens to the media and as Stokes is still riding the crest of a wave the media are not asking questions so neither do you. In time, if Stokes continues as is, questions will get asked more frequently. Australia have the firepower to expose poor selections, other nations by and large less so

Jimmy was picked because just 3 months before the Ashes began he was ranked number one bowler in the world and had more test wickets than any other fast bowler since cricket began
Now if he had been dropped last test or this then fair enough but you are overegging the pudding so much you sound ridiculous.

Posting without comment

Essex Boy - correct again

quote from the daily mail............ ''When there is something in the pitch or the weather suits them, as at The Oval, England remain a formidable proposition'' the articles goes on...... ''yet when the sun shines and the pitch is flat as at Headingley and again at Lord's, the hosts...

www.readytogo.net

Crikey he had been saying exactly the same thing for 13 years

In that period he’s had about 450 wickets at 24

 

[essex boy]

The problem with your logic is 2-3 bad games and you would change people

Jimmy has poor career stats against Australia, struggles on flat wickets with no reverse swing, took 3 wickets at 70 odd and is now being picked on a ground he also struggles at going by his career stats . The media are trotting out he has 2-3 bad games which is what you are basing your opinion on

Jimmy was picked because just 3 months before the Ashes began he was ranked number one bowler in the world and had more test wickets than any other fast bowler since cricket began
Now if he had been dropped last test or this then fair enough but you are overegging the pudding so much you sound ridiculous.

Crikey he had been saying exactly the same thing for 13 years

And my post 13 years ago holds true. Great bowler in the right conditions hence first name on the team sheet for me in India but average to poor on a flat wicket with no reverse swing hence poor career record in Australia, South Africa and The Oval etc

Another reason why he will never be a great IMO

Why should we have beat Australia? If it wasn’t for the weather we might be in the position to do so but the way people have went on sound like they expected us to beat them 4 or 5/0. It’s a strong Australia side

A strong Australian side? Outside of Cummins, Lyon and Smith none of the current crop will be remotely close to an all time Australian top 20 list of players

 

[Sea to Shining Sea]

Jimmy has poor career stats against Australia, struggles on flat wickets with no reverse swing, took 3 wickets at 70 odd and is now being picked on a ground he also struggles at going by his career stats . The media are trotting out he has 2-3 bad games which is what you are basing your opinion on


And my post 13 years ago holds true. Great bowler in the right conditions hence first name on the team sheet for me in India but average to poor on a flat wicket with no reverse swing hence poor career record in Australia, South Africa and The Oval etc

Another reason why he will never be a great IMO

A seam bowler with nearly 200 tests, 700 wickets and an average of 26ish to his name goes down as a great.

Tendulkar only averages 40 in Pakistan and Zimbabwe and isn’t on the Lords honours board but I think he might go down as a great.

 

[essex boy]

Ask yourself England play more test cricket than anyone else, more first class cricket than anyone else yet over a 50 year period by and large have never dominated the number 1 spot or been at the top for very long. Bowlers win games of cricket, and we to this day continue to put sides out with primarily 79-85mph bowlers. There are very bowlers of note who bowled at this pace for sides that dominated

A seam bowler with nearly 200 tests, 700 wickets and an average of 26ish to his name goes down as a great.

Tendulkar only averages 40 in Pakistan and Zimbabwe and isn’t on the Lords honours board but I think he might go down as a great.

That is fair but for me too one dimensional. Its an opinion which I believe people are allowed

 

[rentaghost]

Jimmy has poor career stats against Australia, struggles on flat wickets with no reverse swing, took 3 wickets at 70 odd and is now being picked on a ground he also struggles at going by his career stats . The media are trotting out he has 2-3 bad games which is what you are basing your opinion on


And my post 13 years ago holds true. Great bowler in the right conditions hence first name on the team sheet for me in India but average to poor on a flat wicket with no reverse swing hence poor career record in Australia, South Africa and The Oval etc

Another reason why he will never be a great IMO


A strong Australian side? Outside of Cummins, Lyon and Smith none of the current crop will be remotely close to an all time Australian top 20 list of players

All time is a very long time you know if they have 3 players good enough to be considered an all time Australian great that’s some achievement. More importantly their record shows them to be the best test team in the world and that’s who we are up against.

A seam bowler with nearly 200 tests, 700 wickets and an average of 26ish to his name goes down as a great.

Tendulkar only averages 40 in Pakistan and Zimbabwe and isn’t on the Lords honours board but I think he might go down as a great.

Shane Warne averaged a wicket every 47 runs in India. Second rate

 

[essex boy]

All time is a very long time you know if they have 3 players good enough to be considered an all time Australian great that’s some achievement. More importantly their record shows them to be the best test team in the world and that’s who we are up against.

Shane Warne averaged a wicket every 47 runs in India. Second rate

One less country than Jimmy struggles in then

Why don't the SMB take it up with Stokes, he is the one that asked Lords, Old Trafford, Edgbaston to produce flat wickets which totally nullifies the best bowler England has ever produced according to the views of many

 

[cfg]

Are you telling me a three man selection panel did not know that Bairstow was lacking cricket to play the first two tests? It would have been apparent to anyone around the team he needed a couple more 4 day games for Yorkshire

In regards to your question, if one person is picking this side yes he was picked as he is Stokes mate. A three man selection panel would have questioned it and told Stokes to leave him out for the first two tests. When a PL footballer comes back after an ACL then don't play 90mins from the off, same principle. Managers pick football sides not the captain like the England test side

Bairstow readily admits he hadn’t kept wicket for 3 years and was rusty, he scored 78 in 1st inns of 1st test and is averaging around 40 in this series. Doing his job.
He is not playing because he’s anyones mate.

 

[Sea to Shining Sea]

Ask yourself England play more test cricket than anyone else, more first class cricket than anyone else yet over a 50 year period by and large have never dominated the number 1 spot or been at the top for very long. Bowlers win games of cricket, and we to this day continue to put sides out with primarily 79-85mph bowlers. There are very bowlers of note who bowled at this pace for sides that dominated


That is fair but for me too one dimensional. Its an opinion which I believe people are allowed

Of course an opinion is fair. But I’m not sure what more Anderson would have to do to go down as a great. He’s had his struggles against some opponents but so have other greats. Warne averaged 40 or more against the West Indies and India, their batsman played him very well. But the man was still a genius and is arguably the finest to have ever picked up a cricket ball.

He may not go down as the greatest, few would argue that, but he’s earned his place amongst them. It’s hard to make a credible argument that a bloke can still be playing elite level cricket at 40/41 without having an absolutely superb skill set.

 

[chopsfc007]

Jimmy has poor career stats against Australia, struggles on flat wickets with no reverse swing, took 3 wickets at 70 odd and is now being picked on a ground he also struggles at going by his career stats . The media are trotting out he has 2-3 bad games which is what you are basing your opinion on


And my post 13 years ago holds true. Great bowler in the right conditions hence first name on the team sheet for me in India but average to poor on a flat wicket with no reverse swing hence poor career record in Australia, South Africa and The Oval etc

Another reason why he will never be a great IMO


A strong Australian side? Outside of Cummins, Lyon and Smith none of the current crop will be remotely close to an all time Australian top 20 list of players

Nobody should be changed after 2or3 poor games and I'm basing it on that because it's true before this series he's been bowling very well, if root had a terrible series you wouldn't question his place

 

[rentaghost]

One less country than Jimmy struggles in then

Why don't the SMB take it up with Stokes, he is the one that asked Lords, Old Trafford, Edgbaston to produce flat wickets which totally nullifies the best bowler England has ever produced according to the views of many

I don’t disagree too much with that tbh

 

[essex boy]

Of course an opinion is fair. But I’m not sure what more Anderson would have to do to go down as a great. He’s had his struggles against some opponents but so have other greats. Warne averaged 40 or more against the West Indies and India, their batsman played him very well. But the man was still a genius and is arguably the finest to have ever picked up a cricket ball.

He may not go down as the greatest, few would argue that, but he’s earned his place amongst them. It’s hard to make a credible argument that a bloke can still be playing elite level cricket at 40/41 without having an absolutely superb skill set.

I think he is a fantastic bowler but in the right conditions. In this series Stokes has nullified him the only ground he would have been effective on he was not picked. Take it up with Stokes

I don’t disagree too much with that tbh

And to the best of my knowledge over the last few home series in the summer of 21, 22 etc the England captain was not asking for flat wickets. It may seem brutally harsh but picking him on these types of wickets add in he cant bat is like playing with 10. Again, take it up with Stokes who seems to be getting an easy ride

 

[Sea to Shining Sea]

One less country than Jimmy struggles in then

Why don't the SMB take it up with Stokes, he is the one that asked Lords, Old Trafford, Edgbaston to produce flat wickets which totally nullifies the best bowler England has ever produced according to the views of many

Those pitches largely nullified a very good Australian seam attack too. That’s why they had to resort to garbage bumper tactics.

A continuation of these types of pitches will put Anderson into retirement. They’ve been the types of pitches that Michael Holding would say he’d throw the ball back at his captain

 

[Jack Torrance]

Jimmy has poor career stats against Australia, struggles on flat wickets with no reverse swing, took 3 wickets at 70 odd and is now being picked on a ground he also struggles at going by his career stats . The media are trotting out he has 2-3 bad games which is what you are basing your opinion on


And my post 13 years ago holds true. Great bowler in the right conditions hence first name on the team sheet for me in India but average to poor on a flat wicket with no reverse swing hence poor career record in Australia, South Africa and The Oval etc

Another reason why he will never be a great IMO


A strong Australian side? Outside of Cummins, Lyon and Smith none of the current crop will be remotely close to an all time Australian top 20 list of players

Does that mean the rest of the side isn’t strong? Starc, Hazlewood, Khawaja? Warner has 25 centuries as an opener.
Labuschagne could end up a great by the time he finishes he’s averaging well over 50

 

[Voice of fair play]

Does that mean the rest of the side isn’t strong? Starc, Hazlewood, Khawaja? Warner has 25 centuries as an opener.
Labuschagne could end up a great by the time he finishes he’s averaging well over 50

It’s a ridiculous argument @essex boy is making

Apparently because most of their players are not in the best 20 Australia players ever, which some in that group are some of best the game has produced, it apparently means they’re not a good side currently.

Total nonsense their test world champions and the players you mentioned above very very good test players.

Of course they a good test side