36.566 Leeds average

[Gazoliver]

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Man UTD
Arsenal
Liverpool

I tell a lie...Leeds are higher...11th

Great little website that!
Interesting that Man U are 19m ahead of 2nd place...heck of a gap

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Man UTD
Arsenal
Liverpool

I tell a lie...Leeds are higher...11th

Leeds are 12th (60.4m) in the table I'm looking at, Sunderland 10th (71m)

 

[wednesday1957]

Great little website that!
Interesting that Man U are 19m ahead of 2nd place...heck of a gap

Leeds are 12th (60.4m) in the table I'm looking at, Sunderland 10th (71m)

Great little website that!
Interesting that Man U are 19m ahead of 2nd place...heck of a gap

Leeds are 12th (60.4m) in the table I'm looking at, Sunderland 10th (71m)

Yea..you are right mate..misread it..We are unlucky 13...which doesn't surprise me lol

 

[wev17]

Is a lot of that because Leeds were one of the top clubs in the 1970's, whereas Sunderland spent a lot of that period out of the top flight?
So a lot of football fans (from that era) still look on Leeds as one of the country's 'big names'?
Personally, i dont see the point in any of this 'Who's the bigger club' crap.

You're right is is pointless and nobody can claim to be correct anyway as it is opinion.

But if you want a barometer then neutral fans are the best. I'm pretty confident most fans who aren't linked with Leeds and Sunderland would view Leeds as bigger. As to why? I would guess it is because in modern football Leeds have achieved far more.

 

[EFC]

Leeds attendances don't back up what the Leeds fan is saying on this thread. As someone else pointed out earlier, they have never actually averaged over 40,000 in a single season. They often respond to that by arguing that their capacity has always restricted them but their record crowd was 57,000 so that proves that they were able to get crowds signficantly over 40,000 but their fanbase could never manage it across an entire season. All of the clubs they compare themselves to fanbase wise have managed it.

I saw a post on Social Media the other day randomly mentioning the 1948-49 season saying how there were numerous clubs with 60,000+ and 70,000 attendances in that season. Then someone pointed out how poor Leeds' average and record attendance that season was (note how their top crowd was over 40,000 again though so they clearly had the capacity for a 40,000+ average if the fanbase had been interested).

Appreciate this is a very selective snapshot in history but the overall crowd stats go against Leeds anyway so I thought this was an interesting one.

Here are the top 10 in the top 2 divisions in that season.

Division 1

No.	Club	Average		Highest	Lowest
1	Newcastle United FC	53.839	-4,3%	67.362	33.439
2	Arsenal FC	51.478	-6,4%	68.283	36.825
3	Manchester United	48.808	-11,1%	73.632	22.889
4	Aston Villa FC	47.320	14,2%	69.191	26.890
5	Chelsea FC	46.362	-2,6%	77.696	25.864
6	Sunderland AFC	45.220	5,4%	64.436	28.007
7	Everton FC	45.138	2,1%	78.299	25.548
8	Liverpool FC	44.031	-0,6%	57.561	23.866
9	Wolverhampton Wanderers FC	43.690	10,2%	54.536	27.110
10	Charlton Athletic FC	40.216	10,9%	61.475	23.603

Division 2

No.	Club	Average		Highest	Lowest
1	Tottenham Hotspur FC	48.258	28,1%	69.718	29.808
2	Cardiff City FC	35.091	-7,3%	56.018	26.441
3	Sheffield Wednesday FC	33.797	-5,7%	59.857	18.228
4	West Bromwich Albion FC	33.395	8,2%	47.082	13.009
5	Leicester City FC	30.384	12,1%	35.847	24.151
6	Fulham FC	29.327	36,8%	41.133	19.896
7	Leeds United FC	29.318	2,9%	42.053	19.945
8	Southampton FC	25.384	22,1%	30.586	20.937
9	Nottingham Forest FC	24.175	-0,3%	32.281	12.988
10	West Ham United FC	23.354	-6,1%	38.132	12.349

 

[Rammstein]

30k on st waiting list for a reason,every home seat sold since 2018, 55k expansion plans starting in 2024, much bigger revenue that safc,NO one has ever thought of Sunderland close to the size of leeds Jesus

I see safc61 crawls back with a new name.....
You don't mention the period 2004-2018 when your crowds were low to middling 20k in number?

Nor do you mention: Ridsdale, Administration, Ken Bates...

"Doing a Leeds" is an English football phrase which is synonymous with the potentially dire consequences for domestic clubs in financial mismanagement. The phrase arose after the rapid decline of Premier League club Leeds United F.C., who invested heavily in the late 1990s and early 2000s to attain domestic and lucrative European success, which was capped by high profile appearances in the semi-finals of the UEFA Cup and UEFA Champions League. However, in the process, the club built up large debts, and suffered financial meltdown after failing to continue to qualify for the competition, subsequently dropping down two levels of the football pyramid, into the third tier, Football League and into administration.

Dear, oh dear!

 

[wigwams]

Leeds attendances don't back up what the Leeds fan is saying on this thread. As someone else pointed out earlier, they have never actually averaged over 40,000 in a single season. They often respond to that by arguing that their capacity has always restricted them but their record crowd was 57,000 so that proves that they were able to get crowds signficantly over 40,000 but their fanbase could never manage it across an entire season. All of the clubs they compare themselves to fanbase wise have managed it.

I saw a post on Social Media the other day randomly mentioning the 1948-49 season saying how there were numerous clubs with 60,000+ and 70,000 attendances in that season. Then someone pointed out how poor Leeds' average and record attendance that season was (note how their top crowd was over 40,000 again though so they clearly had the capacity for a 40,000+ average if the fanbase had been interested).

Appreciate this is a very selective snapshot in history but the overall crowd stats go against Leeds anyway so I thought this was an interesting one.

Here are the top 10 in the top 2 divisions in that season.

Division 1

No.	Club	Average		Highest	Lowest
1	Newcastle United FC	53.839	-4,3%	67.362	33.439
2	Arsenal FC	51.478	-6,4%	68.283	36.825
3	Manchester United	48.808	-11,1%	73.632	22.889
4	Aston Villa FC	47.320	14,2%	69.191	26.890
5	Chelsea FC	46.362	-2,6%	77.696	25.864
6	Sunderland AFC	45.220	5,4%	64.436	28.007
7	Everton FC	45.138	2,1%	78.299	25.548
8	Liverpool FC	44.031	-0,6%	57.561	23.866
9	Wolverhampton Wanderers FC	43.690	10,2%	54.536	27.110
10	Charlton Athletic FC	40.216	10,9%	61.475	23.603

Division 2

No.	Club	Average		Highest	Lowest
1	Tottenham Hotspur FC	48.258	28,1%	69.718	29.808
2	Cardiff City FC	35.091	-7,3%	56.018	26.441
3	Sheffield Wednesday FC	33.797	-5,7%	59.857	18.228
4	West Bromwich Albion FC	33.395	8,2%	47.082	13.009
5	Leicester City FC	30.384	12,1%	35.847	24.151
6	Fulham FC	29.327	36,8%	41.133	19.896
7	Leeds United FC	29.318	2,9%	42.053	19.945
8	Southampton FC	25.384	22,1%	30.586	20.937
9	Nottingham Forest FC	24.175	-0,3%	32.281	12.988
10	West Ham United FC	23.354	-6,1%	38.132	12.349

Totally random. Wonder who was highest that year

 

[EFC]

Totally random. Wonder who was highest that year

Definitely was very random! Think post WW2 attendances had a massive spike.

Surprising how Charlton had such high crowds.

But my point of posting it was to show how even in a random season, the expected clubs had impressive crowds whilst Leeds were disappointing. Spurs' 2nd Division crowds shows how strong their support was and shows Leeds up.

 

[Fly]

Hhmmm perhaps deduct .5 as he preceded it with 'an' rather than 'a'.

I have to admit that's a heck of an impressive word, though!

Hhmmm perhaps deduct .5 as he preceded it with 'an' rather than 'a'.

I have to admit that's a heck of an impressive word, though!

Good point. The dazzling light of the word obscured its accompanying inappropriate indefinite article.

 

[safctommie]

When discussing attendances are we talking about the official attendance or attendees?
Are tickets given away for free added into club’s official attendances,whether they are used or not?

 

[wednesday1957]

Definitely was very random! Think post WW2 attendances had a massive spike.

Surprising how Charlton had such high crowds.

But my point of posting it was to show how even in a random season, the expected clubs had impressive crowds whilst Leeds were disappointing. Spurs' 2nd Division crowds shows how strong their support was and shows Leeds up.

That side terrace at charlton was something special

 

[safctommie]

With reference to whose a big club and who isn’t,I would imagine most football supporters would chose clubs who they’ve either watched in the flesh or on tv in their lifetime.
The same with the best player of all time.Messi,Ronaldo or Pele? ( not Son of Pele)
Would a teenager say Pele? Would someone in their early 20s say Pele? Probably not.

 

[Sidewinder2]

Attendances mean fuck all. As soon as the SMB realise this the better

 

[Rammstein]

Good point. The dazzling light of the word obscured its accompanying inappropriate indefinite article.

That's what I thought .....

 

[marktown]

Did you not see the Sheff Wed prices in the other thread and what I said? Where is the £500/£200 from though it would probably be for 1 stand so limited availability.

"This is Sheff Wed's prices below and for someone aged 17 to 24 the cheapest is £450 for 1 stand and £560 for 2 others and £640. All the Sheff Wed fans aged 17-21 pay those amounts, whereas our fans that age pay £165 for most of the ground in all 4 stands. If we had the same pricing structure as Sheff Wed it would certainly affect the numbers surely given we must have 1000s of fans aged 17-21? Even Sheff Wed's 12-16 ticket prices are £225 for 3 stands compared to our £96 or £48 for all 4 stands so again would certainly affect our numbers."

An adult at Sheff Wed is a minimum £595 in the Kop and then £735 in 2 other stands and £835 in the 4th stand. There's no way all SAFC fans could still afford to go (or be willing to pay that much) if they charged the prices like Sheff Wed along with restricted concession areas. Our U16s are just £55 whereas it would cost £225 for a 12-15 year old at Sheff Wed. An adult at Sheff Wed paying £595 with is two 12-15 year old kids would be a total of £1,035 restricted to just 1 stand and up to £1,265 in the South Stand. Whereas at the SOL, an adult with 2 kids pays a total £530 in the North/South stand or £638 in East/West stand so just over half the price.

Southampton have a similar initial concession price but only in the family section of less than 5,000 available seats. If fans can't get in that section then it's £857 in half a stand behind goals up to £977 for the outer East/West stand and more for being central. This also doesn't take into account the higher single match day ticket prices either as not all available tickets are STs and Sheff Wed want £59 for a Cat A game. Leeds are supposedly restricting STs according to what @Real class of 92 said HERE. Probably because they know they can sell the singles as they charge fans to be a member also, as do other clubs as their limited by capacity. Leeds prices 5 seasons ago were similar to ours now so who knows what they are now given they've been in the PL.

It's a no brainer that we get bigger crowds thanks to the size of the SOL and it's not just the lower prices. It's the fact that most of our ground has concession availability unlike other clubs who milk the fans by only having few sections of seats. I'll say it again, there's no doubt we've got class support, home and away, as has been proven for decades now but it's a bit of blinkered view to try to compare it directly to other clubs on just the attendance numbers alone. If other clubs had a 49K stadium with our prices then it's a certainty most would get higher crowds than they do now and the difference wouldn't be as large. That's why, for example, someone saying Sheff Wed aren't filling their ground and possibly slagging of their fans is a very blinkered view to have when you factor in just how much their fans have to pay. It's a piss take of their fans in my opinion and I'd bet @Visiting owl and @wednesday1957 will agree.T

A load of fuckin nonsense tickets for a fiver another myth.
The Leeds Greater Metropolitan area has a population of 2.75 million a one club city your attendances are shite.
Sunderland has a population of 270,000 with the North Sea on one side and is surrounded by green fields we put you to shame for attendances.
We got more than you got in League 1
You were fuck all in history before the cheating Revie took over.
Sheffield Wednesday are the biggest club in Yorkshire.

To be a massive club you have to win things, that is the whole point of football. if you stopped someone in the street and said Sunderland are massive, I’m not sure you would get the reaction you are hoping for!!

 

[Rammstein]

With reference to whose a big club and who isn’t,I would imagine most football supporters would chose clubs who they’ve either watched in the flesh or on tv in their lifetime.
The same with the best player of all time.Messi,Ronaldo or Pele? ( not Son of Pele)
Would a teenager say Pele? Would someone in their early 20s say Pele? Probably not.

I remember my son and me being guests in a box at Man United, Boxing Day ( 2010? ) They beat us 2-0.
Part of the day was a tour of their museum. I have to say their display of trophies, memoribilia etc was beyond impressive!! Spent 20 minutes admiring it until I realised that was just the Under 21 team trophy section!
Only club I could compare it to where I was gobsmacked would be the tour we did of the Nou Camp.
Those are what you call big clubs.

In total comparison, I did a tour of Leeds ( we lost 2-1 and Bowyer dived to get Alex Rae sent off) , Eric Gates was with us and by comparison it was like walking in a dingy second hand shop. Norman Hunter escorted us. Took us to Revie's old office - the ' Gaffers Room ' and I swear he almost had a tear in his eye until Gatesy asked him " Where did he keep his collection of brown envelopes, then?"
Silence ensued .........

 

[Starman]

In the premiership last season this was Leeds average gate, so you'd imagine that in the Championship it might be lower. Southampton and Leicester were lower. We've already outdone these numbers with our season tickets/cards, so are we all confident around having the best gates in the Championship?

So what still where we are. Could have 100,000 there makes no difference

 

[ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK]

Leeds attendances don't back up what the Leeds fan is saying on this thread. As someone else pointed out earlier, they have never actually averaged over 40,000 in a single season. They often respond to that by arguing that their capacity has always restricted them but their record crowd was 57,000 so that proves that they were able to get crowds signficantly over 40,000 but their fanbase could never manage it across an entire season. All of the clubs they compare themselves to fanbase wise have managed it.

I saw a post on Social Media the other day randomly mentioning the 1948-49 season saying how there were numerous clubs with 60,000+ and 70,000 attendances in that season. Then someone pointed out how poor Leeds' average and record attendance that season was (note how their top crowd was over 40,000 again though so they clearly had the capacity for a 40,000+ average if the fanbase had been interested).

Appreciate this is a very selective snapshot in history but the overall crowd stats go against Leeds anyway so I thought this was an interesting one.

Here are the top 10 in the top 2 divisions in that season.

Division 1

No.	Club	Average		Highest	Lowest
1	Newcastle United FC	53.839	-4,3%	67.362	33.439
2	Arsenal FC	51.478	-6,4%	68.283	36.825
3	Manchester United	48.808	-11,1%	73.632	22.889
4	Aston Villa FC	47.320	14,2%	69.191	26.890
5	Chelsea FC	46.362	-2,6%	77.696	25.864
6	Sunderland AFC	45.220	5,4%	64.436	28.007
7	Everton FC	45.138	2,1%	78.299	25.548
8	Liverpool FC	44.031	-0,6%	57.561	23.866
9	Wolverhampton Wanderers FC	43.690	10,2%	54.536	27.110
10	Charlton Athletic FC	40.216	10,9%	61.475	23.603

Division 2

No.	Club	Average		Highest	Lowest
1	Tottenham Hotspur FC	48.258	28,1%	69.718	29.808
2	Cardiff City FC	35.091	-7,3%	56.018	26.441
3	Sheffield Wednesday FC	33.797	-5,7%	59.857	18.228
4	West Bromwich Albion FC	33.395	8,2%	47.082	13.009
5	Leicester City FC	30.384	12,1%	35.847	24.151
6	Fulham FC	29.327	36,8%	41.133	19.896
7	Leeds United FC	29.318	2,9%	42.053	19.945
8	Southampton FC	25.384	22,1%	30.586	20.937
9	Nottingham Forest FC	24.175	-0,3%	32.281	12.988
10	West Ham United FC	23.354	-6,1%	38.132	12.349

I agree with the capacity thing though bear in mind that as late as the 70s, many fans of other local clubs went to 'rivals' games just to see the top opposition players of the time. They had no Sky Sports so had to go in flesh to see top players/games and therefore increased attendances artificially. That's why you will see such a variation in some of our own attendances throughout the seasons in the 50s/60s/70s as the mags fans used to come to Roker Park and vice versa, especially depending on what division we were in.

We finished 8th in Division 1 and the Mags 4th so there's no doubt that rival fans added to the gates but Leeds were in the 2nd division and finished 15th. Though the point you are making is still valid as you only have to look at the time they were next in Division 1 in 1957/58. They averaged 24,920 with a low of 17,600 (against us strangely enough) and a high of 39,401 against Man Utd.

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In comparison, in the same season of 1957/58 we had an average of 36,140 with a low of 22,477 and high of 56,493 though how many mag fans added to our numbers? How many fans of the other 'big' clubs of the time within say 15-20 miles would Leeds have attracted?

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Aye it's obvious we've historically had bigger crowds than Leeds but this is another example of other factors being involved I suppose.

 

[peter w]

Most neutral fans would say Leeds are a bigger club than Sunderland.

Really? I support neither and think Sunderland are bigger than Leeds. I'd argue that they're bigger than Newcastle too which is obviously easy to say on here. I don't get this Leeds big club thing. They've spent more or less the same amount of time outside of the top flight. have hardy won anything. and dont have the ability to affect new stories relating to their ongoings. No bigger than Wolves.

 

[EssexYid]

Definitely was very random! Think post WW2 attendances had a massive spike.

Surprising how Charlton had such high crowds.

But my point of posting it was to show how even in a random season, the expected clubs had impressive crowds whilst Leeds were disappointing. Spurs' 2nd Division crowds shows how strong their support was and shows Leeds up.[/URL]

The following seasons were even better for Spurs, but the fountain of knowledge Peace thinks Leeds United are bigger than the likes of Aston Villa, Everton, Newcastle United (sorry) and Spurs who are all far better supported both historically and currently than Leeds United and all of those clubs have have won far more trophies than Leeds United have with just 6 trophies

Sunderland as you obviously know have won 8 major trophies and have higher average attendances than Leeds United so whatever people's opinions are they are on this Sunderland are bigger than Leeds United regarding the most important factors which are trophies and attendances.

[url=https://postimg.cc/fk0fPjY1]

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[/URL]

 

[Wrenthorpe Mackem]

Lies, damn lies and statistics. Leeds qualified for all European campaigns not as been suggested through an invite bit by league position. In any case 2 European Cup semi finals and a final since 1970 is not too shabby. Throw in a cup winners cup final as well for good measure.In my lifetime we have won the top league 3 times.

Our ground is considerably smaller than Sunderland's and with 50,000 members and a ST waiting list of 22,000 I am confident that an increased capacity would be filled. Don't forget Sunderland only averaged above 20,000 on 6 ocassions in a 20 year period through 1980-99 when you were at RP with its lower capacity.

I think if you asked other teams fans who is the bigger you would get a fairer reflection.

50000 members means sweet FA. We had over 40K back in the 80s although long dropped that. As for the waiting list, dunno. The Mags used to bang on about having one but seemed to melt away, if it ever existed, once a mediocre season or two occurred. Certainly under Bruce and pre Benitez you could pay on day.

You should presumably sell out every single game which I'll look out for as with a 20K waiting list, even if part of the ground is left open for pay on day, they should be taken up very quickly by these fans.

I would personally say Leeds are bigger based on 3 titles won and stints in champions league in last 50 years and, generally, higher league finishes. That was a hell of a team you had under O'Leary at turn of century. And more seasons in top flight (I think) in that time? But think you are no more than a top 10 club. Maybe just in the top 10 ahead of us.