15 Minute Cities etc

Redandwhitedust said:
are many towns not like this already?

I've never lived in a big city but are they far from this now?
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Quite a lot are. A lot of this discussion has come about because of heavy building programmes. I have seen it happening in the town where I live, where every scrap of land is being sold for hosing, and now some land belonging to schools.

Towns are sprawling outwards with no design. Each housing estate for 200-400 houses is not big enough to justify a large open green area, a football pitch, a library, a school etc, so in isolation each building project doesn't fulfil it's obligations. Then the next one comes along, and the next. All of a sudden you have 3000 houses built by half a dozen builders and either them building facilities or reserving land for facilities is not their problem. Without the strategic planning at council level or this being considered by many planning authorities it continues and leaves many people a long way from shops and other facilities. So they have to drive.

There are many news reports and complains from new residents about this. This one being one of the worst examples:
www.bbc.co.uk

Northstowe: The broken-promise new town built 'with no heart'

Northstowe will be the UK's biggest new town since the development of Milton Keynes in the 1960s.
www.bbc.co.uk
 


Mackem00 said:
There's all those things about 800 yards from Barnes Park. Then again about 1km away in Pallion.

How far is Grangetown main street away from Tunstall?
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Are there? And as for distance I would guess from Crosslea Avenue to Grangetown to be well over a mile.
 
DaveH said:
It shows what a good job the conspiracy loons have done on this one. It is a really simple concept. Most everyday resources close at hand, and people travel further afield for the less common things. This is called the Sunderland Message Board. We are not all going to have a SAFC within 15 minutes. Doctors on your doorstep, go to the SoL on a weekend. It is not that hard to understand.
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whats hard to understand is how it's even possible to implement.

Within 15 minutes of my front door I have local shops for every day resources. There's a Tesco Express nearby for example. But it's so expensive for a big shop, we shop at the out of town supermarket for all but the odd item.

Within 25 mins from my door I can probably cover most resources I might need. But nearly all are available cheaper outside of that boundary.

High streets are dying because high rent, low footfall. You can do all the planning for 15 minute cities that you want, but business doesn't work like that. People will travel to save money/have choice. Therefore the 15 minute idea is moot when the resources and facilities needed to make a 15 minute city cant survive

You'd need to either give people a reason to stay local for their services (ie incentivise businesses by redu ing costs) or punish them for travelling out of town. It will never work because no government is going to do either.

Then theres Schools, Doctors, leisure facilities etc. To have a 15 minute city how much money would need to be spent building new ones? How keen are governments to spend on these things?

The idea of ultra local services and resources is at odds with the modern world where everything is getting less and less local. It's a nice idea but I just can't see it happening
 
DaveH said:
Do you have any specific cases of exactly what was said? I can’t put up a response to a vague statement like that.

But that is a commercial decision and most likely the person was seen to be representing the company in some way. It is not a governmental decision and not this locking down proposed by the 15 minute conspiracy.

So I ask again, why would we simply not vote out a government that put severe restrictions on the physical movements of it’s people?
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You forget the mayor of London is restricting movement for certain people-charging them a fee to drive in certain areas, with plans to expand it. No doubt you would have also called this a conspiracy 3-5 years ago. He's likely to be voted back in again as mayor. The same with the SNP in Scotland, who are restricting freedoms.
People are disengaged with the democratic process more than ever-they're tired of voting for one of the two cheeks of the same backside - the most inept political class we've seen for a generation.
I think you're putting too much faith in people's engagement with the political system. There's a malaise and general apathy around politics.
And as I already stated-there'd probably be a lot of division amongst the populace-that's how they could implement it.
This is a hypothesis and I don't pretend to be some kind of political Nostrodamus like yourself and know what will happen in the future.
 
John the Savage said:
You forget the mayor of London is restricting movement for certain people-charging them a fee to drive in certain areas, with plans to expand it. No doubt you would have also called this a conspiracy 3-5 years ago. He's likely to be voted back in again as mayor. The same with the SNP in Scotland, who are restricting freedoms.
People are disengaged with the democratic process more than ever-they're tired of voting for one of the two cheeks of the same backside - the most inept political class we've seen for a generation.
I think you're putting too much faith in people's engagement with the political system. There's a malaise and general apathy around politics.
And as I already stated-there'd probably be a lot of division amongst the populace-that's how they could implement it.
This is a hypothesis and I don't pretend to be some kind of political Nostrodamus like yourself and know what will happen in the future.
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We've already seen how easy it was to lock billions of people up in their home due to a strain of the flu and how easily they took umpteen dozes of an experimental drug and this is before we get on to the climate garbage currently being spouted that loads are falling for.

they've already played billions of people for fools.

they call the Tories liars and then when they spout Covid nonsense and climate nonsense apparently the Tories are then worth ,listening to.
 
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harryCLSsafc said:
the climate garbage currently being spouted that loads are falling for
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not falling for, swimming in...

Flooded roads warning thread.

Byrons Walk, Seaham badly flooded about an hour ago. Could well be impassable by now so one to avoid.
www.readytogo.net www.readytogo.net
chunkyshanhawk53 said:
Just because he said it, doesn’t mean it isn’t utter bollocks
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harry's done his research, its a conspiracy & we're the fools... the rain falling out the sky isnt real...
 
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John the Savage said:
You forget the mayor of London is restricting movement for certain people-charging them a fee to drive in certain areas, with plans to expand it. No doubt you would have also called this a conspiracy 3-5 years ago. He's likely to be voted back in again as mayor. The same with the SNP in Scotland, who are restricting freedoms.
People are disengaged with the democratic process more than ever-they're tired of voting for one of the two cheeks of the same backside - the most inept political class we've seen for a generation.
I think you're putting too much faith in people's engagement with the political system. There's a malaise and general apathy around politics.
And as I already stated-there'd probably be a lot of division amongst the populace-that's how they could implement it.
This is a hypothesis and I don't pretend to be some kind of political Nostrodamus like yourself and know what will happen in the future.
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That's not restricting movement at all though. People can drive in the ULEZ zone all they want as long as they either have a complaint vehicle or willing to pay for the harm they are causing.

This is not new. VAT. Fuel duty. Air passenger duty. Tax on cigarettes. Alcohol duty. People have always been asked to pay for behaviours bad for society and in general people agree with it. That's why he's likely to win again (and no sensible alternative to him either)
errant said:
is 2024?! don't assume owt... bit like which sunderland will turn up at elland road tonight, it could be anything.
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Yes I can see now he's a tin foil hatter.
 
MiddleAgedMan said:
That's not restricting movement at all though. People can drive in the ULEZ zone all they want as long as they either have a complaint vehicle or willing to pay for the harm they are causing.

This is not new. VAT. Fuel duty. Air passenger duty. Tax on cigarettes. Alcohol duty. People have always been asked to pay for behaviours bad for society and in general people agree with it. That's why he's likely to win again (and no sensible alternative to him either)

Yes I can see now he's a tin foil hatter.
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So it's definitely not a restriction - it's only a restriction for those who can't afford it -okay🤔

"People have always been asked to pay for behaviours bad for society and in general people agree with it."
So, they tell you leaving your 15 minute area is bad, very bad for the environment and very bad for society. So you cough up the money, because that's what the people do -you're right.
Thanks
@DaveH there's your answer how this hypothesis could come about.
 

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