🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 England v New Zealand 🇳🇿 2nd ODI - Ageas Bowl

MustardAndOnions said:
Yeah, like I’d probably have him in the squad, but it’s been dominating every newspaper column, pundit etc. he’s not in the XI anyway so I just think it’s not a big deal

50 over is a class format for me, I don’t buy this argument it’s just a long t20. I think experience of playing 50 over cricket in high pressure is vital and Roy should be backed for me, if he struggles badly then you have great insurance in Malan as a quality, safe opener to come in

Then if stokes or whoever breaks a finger in the middle order, brook can come in there

Don’t see it as a big deal

Some pitches will be flat there but some will turn and Livingston and root will be important.

I don’t see stokes bowling at all. So there’s no way brook can play
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He can if you swap him for roy, who's been terrible for a while and isn't going to get any better. We all know how talented Brook is
 


MustardAndOnions said:
Brook isnt an opener, as he is showing

Roy has 2 100s for england recently.

its about winning a world cup, not a training camp to get better like
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There's plenty who can open in that odi team, bairstow, buttler and malan being just three off the top of my head. I don't rate Roy but fair play if you do, just think we have better and brook is a massive talent who should be playing
 
JackL said:
There's plenty who can open in that odi team, bairstow, buttler and malan being just three off the top of my head. I don't rate Roy but fair play if you do, just think we have better and brook is a massive talent who should be playing
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Buttler wont open in ODI cricket like, never done it before in his career, ever. no scenario where he opens mate.

Brook doesn't get in the side unless he opens, its the only spot thats even remotely debatble.

And he has had 2 games there and been poor.

Everyone likes to say he needs to play, but the reality is, there isn't room

It Malan or Roy to open with Bairstow, you choose.
 
MustardAndOnions said:
Buttler wont open in ODI cricket like, never done it before in his career, ever. no scenario where he opens mate.

Brook doesn't get in the side unless he opens, its the only spot thats even remotely debatble.

And he has had 2 games there and been poor.

Everyone likes to say he needs to play, but the reality is, there isn't room

It Malan or Roy to open with Bairstow, you choose.
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It has to be concern that Roy is not the player he was 3/4 years ago, always liked him but it is a concern.

Personally I would take a punt on Brook, as sometimes players come along, who are on the up and getting better and better, and he falls into that category for me, where not sure some of our top order players are at their peak no longer.

It’s a close one and borderline decision, and the good thing and positive way to look at it is the depth we have, not many teams if any would have the quality to leave a player put like Brook.
 
Voice of fair play said:
It has to be concern that Roy is not the player he was 3/4 years ago, always liked him but it is a concern.

Personally I would take a punt on Brook, as sometimes players come along, who are on the up and getting better and better, and he falls into that category for me, where not sure some of our top order players are at their peak no longer.

It’s a close one and borderline decision, and the good thing and positive way to look at it is the depth we have, not many teams if any would have the quality to leave a player put like Brook.
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Neither is Root and nobody calling for him to be dropped. He averages less than Roy now since the 2019 world cup.

Roy and Malan are the only ones with any ODI form in our top 4.
MustardAndOnions said:
Buttler wont open in ODI cricket like, never done it before in his career, ever. no scenario where he opens mate.

Brook doesn't get in the side unless he opens, its the only spot thats even remotely debatble.

And he has had 2 games there and been poor.

Everyone likes to say he needs to play, but the reality is, there isn't room

It Malan or Roy to open with Bairstow, you choose.
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If we went in with 5 bowlers plus Root.

Then we could fit in Brook. Him at 5 or 6 with Livingstone at 7.

But the fact he's been opening tells me that's not happening.
 
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mackembhoy said:
Neither is Root and nobody calling for him to be dropped. He averages less than Roy now since the 2019 world cup.

Roy and Malan are the only ones with any ODI form in our top 4.

If we went in with 5 bowlers plus Root.

Then we could fit in Brook. Him at 5 or 6 with Livingstone at 7.

But the fact he's been opening tells me that's not happening.
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Nah we need more bowlers than that

Root has not diminished at all man, he has hardly played any ODIs
Voice of fair play said:
It has to be concern that Roy is not the player he was 3/4 years ago, always liked him but it is a concern.

Personally I would take a punt on Brook, as sometimes players come along, who are on the up and getting better and better, and he falls into that category for me, where not sure some of our top order players are at their peak no longer.

It’s a close one and borderline decision, and the good thing and positive way to look at it is the depth we have, not many teams if any would have the quality to leave a player put like Brook.
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As an opener? Nah, no chance, he is a middle order player or nothing at the minute, different format, but he really strugled at 3 in the test stuff when everyone just said it would be a breeze forhim to go up

he is a young lad, people asking too much, he struggled in the t20 world cup too

take him as a reserve but thats it for me
PeteFTM said:
It’s a good win, but two batsmen papered over the cracks a bit imo.

Worrying combined score of 9 from the first 4 opening batsmen. I’d rather see Malan and Brook open, right hand left hand.

I can see them dropping Brook for Malan though, which I wouldn’t agree with, but is fair enough at this stage given the other two’s experience and record.

Personally, I don’t see why Zak Crawley isn’t opening considering his Ashes performances. Realistically, I can’t see why we’re not just opening with Duckett and Crawley, we play Test cricket in ODI style anyway.
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you what?

Bairstow is our best opener of all time. And one of the best white ball openers of all time anywhere in the world.

His record is absolutely unbeleivable.

Lets drop a few all time greats for 2 lads who have never plyed 50 over cricket for Enland.
 
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MustardAndOnions said:
Nah we need more bowlers than that

Root has not diminished at all man, he has hardly played any ODIs


As an opener? Nah, no chance, he is a middle order player or nothing at the minute, different format, but he really strugled at 3 in the test stuff when everyone just said it would be a breeze forhim to go up

he is a young lad, people asking too much, he struggled in the t20 world cup too

take him as a reserve but thats it for me
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Since the 2019 world cup he's played 1 less ODI than Malan albeit 14 knocks to Malan 18. Malan averages 57 and Root 29.

Malan with the best average(more than 3 knocks) of any England player in that time. Yet he's the one under pressure in the media for the drop.

I'm not saying drop Root but the media are making more of a point for Malan who has been our best player :lol::lol:

stats.espncricinfo.com

Batting records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com stats.espncricinfo.com
 
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MustardAndOnions said:
Bairstow is our best opener of all time. And one of the best white ball openers of all time anywhere in the world.

His record is absolutely unbeleivable.

Lets drop a few all time greats for 2 lads who have never plyed 50 over cricket for Enland.
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Aye and let’s get Bryan Robson back in for the England match tomorrow anarl
 
mackembhoy said:
Since the 2019 world cup he's played 1 less ODI than Malan albeit 14 knocks to Malan 18. Malan averages 57 and Root 29.

Malan with the best average(more than 3 knocks) of any England player in that time. Yet he's the one under pressure in the media for the drop.

I'm not saying drop Root but the media are making more of a point for Malan who has been our best player :lol::lol:

stats.espncricinfo.com

Batting records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com stats.espncricinfo.com
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Yeah its been a bit unfair on Malan, and I'd take him 100% like

i just think the ODIs since the world cup have been so so low key, like lumped on the end of series etc


Malan and Roy should go for me, then open with whoever is in best touch...I think people are trying to overcomplicate it

I know selection is a topic people like to discuss like, but sometimes look for controversy when its not there
PeteFTM said:
Why would you drop Buttler? He’s not only captain but one of the best white ball players in the world
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So is Bairstow. is this a wind up like? :lol:
PeteFTM said:
Aye and let’s get Bryan Robson back in for the England match tomorrow anarl
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@Voice of fair play good to see sensible debate still here!

Bairstow should be dropped for Ben Duckett.

Bloke avergaes 50 with a strike rate of 107 and 11 100s opening

Get rid of him!

Does this bloke just hate ginger people or someit, its strange.
 
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MustardAndOnions said:
Yeah its been a bit unfair on Malan, and I'd take him 100% like

i just think the ODIs since the world cup have been so so low key, like lumped on the end of series etc


Malan and Roy should go for me, then open with whoever is in best touch...I think people are trying to overcomplicate it

I know selection is a topic people like to discuss like, but sometimes look for controversy when its not there


So is Bairstow. is this a wind up like? :lol:


@Voice of fair play good to see sensible debate still here!

Bairstow should be dropped for Ben Duckett.

Bloke avergaes 50 with a strike rate of 107 and 11 100s opening

Get rid of him!

Does this bloke just hate ginger people or someit, its strange.
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Yeah it’s madness to even discuss dropping Bairstow
 
Firstly, I enjoyed the game yesterday when play finally got underway. You can see a few of the England players are out of touch recently. Don't think the preparation has been very good for the World Cup personally. Root and Stokes look like they need a decent stay at the crease. Topley looked great and bowled himself back into some form and Livingstones knock showed he can play a longer responsible innings. Curran batted well too. Great comeback win when all looked lost.
 
chopsfc007 said:
I think Malan should play as well
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Yeah it’s a difficult one all round and very difficult to argue against any of the top batsmen on stats and records alone.

But for me personally just think Brook has that something, the X factor if you like.

And despite outstanding records of other batsman would still want to explore all possible options to get Brook in!

And not against him opening.

Bairstow was a middle order player himself earlier on in his career until promotion to opener in white ball cricket with great results so it can be done.

Brook imo is going to be a superstar and match winner and if that means replacing somebody with a previous good record it may be the way to go.

But totally get the other side of the argument and the records of the other players, just have a hunch some of our top order batsman possibly past their best.

Good problem to have though
 
chopsfc007 said:
I think Malan should play as well
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I think purely on form and "deservedness" then Malan plays over Roy

I dunno, I just fancy Roy to do 2 or 3 class knocks under pressure
Voice of fair play said:
Yeah it’s a difficult one all round and very difficult to argue against any of the top batsmen on stats and records alone.

But for me personally just think Brook has that something, the X factor if you like.

And despite outstanding records of other batsman would still want to explore all possible options to get Brook in!

And not against him opening.

Bairstow was a middle order player himself earlier on in his career until promotion to opener in white ball cricket with great results so it can be done.

Brook imo is going to be a superstar and match winner and if that means replacing somebody with a previous good record it may be the way to go.

But totally get the other side of the argument and the records of the other players, just have a hunch some of our top order batsman possibly past their best.

Good problem to have though
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Aye its a good problem

Dont think anyone be kicking off if they open with Brook, I just think, we have kind of built up to the fact he can do almost anything, but he is so young, and I think to start him over 2, on their day, world class openers, is a big shout.

You could see in the last 2 games he was trying to work out how to play, he obviously has the talent, but you need like a good run to work it out. Dont just go in and tee off, and he looked unsure whether to stick or twist

I dont think like just before the world cup is a good time to try it personally

I think for me, its a simple as that right now, Malan and Roy would score more runs than Brook opening in a world cup.
 
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MustardAndOnions said:
I think purely on form and "deservedness" then Malan plays over Roy

I dunno, I just fancy Roy to do 2 or 3 class knocks under pressure


Aye its a good problem

Dont think anyone be kicking off if they open with Brook, I just think, we have kind of built up to the fact he can do almost anything, but he is so young, and I think to start him over 2, on their day, world class openers, is a big shout.

You could see in the last 2 games he was trying to work out how to play, he obviously has the talent, but you need like a good run to work it out. Dont just go in and tee off, and he looked unsure whether to stick or twist

I dont think like just before the world cup is a good time to try it personally

I think for me, its a simple as that right now, Malan and Roy would score more runs than Brook opening in a world cup.
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Aye would not totally disagree and see your point I do.

Just think world cups only come around every 4 years and sometimes just grasp the nettle and go for it, I struggle leaving out someone with some much ability and talent in the biggest white ball competition of them all.

I worry they have been a little bit conservative and going for the safe option and definitely worried about Roy’s form all be it in shorter white ball cricket.
 

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