Conning the ref

[Arcas Left Peg]

as long as you have fans (and pundits, journalists, players, managers, coaches and every other person involved in football) , but especially fans - like most on here - who think 'contact' equals a free kick, then diving will never stop

Trouble is that works the other way as well. You'll regularly see a player go in with both feet, studs up and out of control, and take someone out, and the commentators (and everyone else you mentioned) will be microanalysing slow mo footage to see if there was the vaguest accidental nick on the ball and try to pass it off as fine on that basis.

I'm in favour of an extremely limited post match retrospective punishment system, whereby if you fake a hit in the face with zero contact or blatantly dive, and if the decision goes your way, you get a retrospective yellow if it's at the point of the season where cumulative yellows gets you a ban, or a retrospective match ban after that.

 

[Voice of fair play]

Players cheat. They actively try to deceive the refs into making a mistake. Claim a penalty, a corner a throw when they know it would be a mistake to award one.

As others have said, it's always gone on and probably always will.

What gets me is when a ref actually makes a genuine mistake, its the players and managers on the receiving end that are worked up into a froth - unbelievably forgetting that it is their express intention to deceive that same ref into making false judgements.

Well absolutely exactly spot on, the bare faced cheek to cheat and make somebody job as hard as you possibly can then twist like fuck when he gets it wrong because of it.

It’s a ridiculous culture that seems only and accepted normal in football.

Not in any other sport or walk of life.

Those conning the refs should be dealt with by VAR where possible.

Straight red for cheating. But they won’t have the balls to do it.

It would soon stop if that happened

There should be massive bans after the game when you have the time to review and look at it properly and be 100% sure it was con.

Once you 100% sure of it ban them for a long time hopefully that would be initially for a very short period until it stops

Not just us, the commentators and so called pundits too.
'buying a free kick', 'entitled to go down'.
What a load of shite, they're legitimising cheating.

Yeah when a team on a break and a player clears pulls someone back to stop that break and take a obvious yellow card it is often described as ‘ a good foul’ or ‘ taking one for the team’

Eh!

Not it’s not it’s cheating the other team has robbed you of the ball fairly and now on the break and you have stopped them by cheating.

But once again the culture of football accepts that!!

 

[Coeus]

Well absolutely exactly spot on, the bare faced cheek to cheat and make somebody job as hard as you possibly can then twist like fuck when he gets it wrong because of it.

It’s a ridiculous culture that seems only and accepted normal in football.

Not in any other sport or walk of life.

There should be massive bans after the game when you have the time to review and look at it properly and be 100% sure it was con.

Once you 100% sure of it ban them for a long time hopefully that would be initially for a very short period until it stops

Yeah when a team on a break and a player clears pulls someone back to stop that break and take a obvious yellow card it is often described as ‘ a good foul’ or ‘ taking one for the team’

Eh!

Not it’s not it’s cheating the other team has robbed you of the ball fairly and now on the break and you have stopped them by cheating.

But once again the culture of football accepts that!!

I believe its called a foul as opposed to cheating, which are judged by how severe they are. This thread is pretty crazy, are you suggesting that instead of trying to win the players should endeavour to uphold the strictest idea of fair play and that can be found in any other competitive sport in the world?

 

[Biffo The Bear]

Im not being funny, but I want our players to do what they can within reason to win the game. It's up to the referee to officiate if they do it within the rules.

How can you expect someone not to grapple at corners when everyone else is?

Honest at least.

 

[Coeus]

Honest at least.

Is that not just incredibly naive?

Generally sport professionals are competitive by nature, it comes with the territory.

 

[Biffo The Bear]

Is that not just incredibly naive?

Generally sport professionals are competitive by nature, it comes with the territory.

I get that.
Everyone else is diving so others will.
Everyone else goes down, after a scream and holds their head.
WWF at dead ball.
None are within the rules. All do it.

 

[SPUFF]

Palace lad tried to con a pen last night.

When its a rarely booked attacker rather than say a centre half risking a ban, a yellow n bit embaresment seems insufficient punishment often when theres zero contact.

Mind Klinsman was some time ago n a master at ‘simulation’ was he the twat to kick this all off?

 

[Coeus]

Palace lad tried to con a pen last night.

When its a rarely booked attacker rather than say a centre half risking a ban, a yellow n bit embaresment seems insufficient punishment often when theres zero contact.

Mind Klinsman was some time ago n a master at ‘simulation’ was he the twat to kick this all off?

There's records of simulation from Scottish football in the 19th century.

 

[Unlucky Black Cat]

Players are conditioned to cheat now. Just watch any throw in or corner decision. Even if it’s blatantly obvious to everyone in the ground which side’s player kicked the ball out of play, you can guarantee that almost as a default reaction both players will claim it’s their throw or corner.

Then the play acting or diving is farcical. Bruno Fernandes on Saturday gets brushed by the fingers of Angulo as he runs - in what other scenario does such a light contact cause a grown man to fall to the ground clutching his face! Same again in last nights playoff game when the Southampton keeper falls dramatically to the floor as if he’s been poleaxed after a light flick of a finger.

Well said. The way they go on is pathetic and embarrassing.

You can actually hear them screaming over the crowd noise and the commentators as they are brushed past before doing a minimum of three rolls on the ground

Then beating the ground in pretend agony!

 

[DJP]

Alan Shearer was an expert at conning refs but commentators would never criticise him, they would always say he was "using his professionalism".

 

[contrarian]

Those conning the refs should be dealt with by VAR where possible.

Straight red for cheating. But they won’t have the balls to do it.

It would soon stop if that happened

None of us want to see refs conned especially when it may mean we concede à goal through it but what goes on now is ridiculous
My understand (was ) that unless it’s a shoulder charge ( shoulder to shoulder) any other contact with an opposition player would be via the foot and would need to show the foot makes contact with the ball first.
Players are grappling, shirt pulling et etc, especially at set pieces and on the odd occasion à ref will give a decision based on the most innocuous of reasons despite scenes prior that make WWE and UFC look tame.
This is nothing to do with VAR. There seems to have been slackening off in what constitutes a fair challenge

 

[AC Mack]

Player cheats, ref gets the blame. A sad indictment of the world in which we now live.

 

[Voice of fair play]

I believe its called a foul as opposed to cheating, which are judged by how severe they are. This thread is pretty crazy, are you suggesting that instead of trying to win the players should endeavour to uphold the strictest idea of fair play and that can be found in any other competitive sport in the world?

I genuinely think it’s the culture of football that is pretty crazy as opposed to many other sports.

Imagine if many other sports purposefully encouraged cheating and then blamed the officials for not stopping it?

Of course I am not suggesting the above.

It’s entirely possible to try your fullest and best to win games and that as a first priority without cheating as much as they do.

Is they a need to roll around like you shot when you perfectly fine to get an opposition player sent off?

No

Is they a need to con a ref and dive for a foul and claim a pen when you 100% know it’s not a foul

No.

What is fair and acceptable to win in sport.

In the Ryder Cup is it ok and not cheating to cough and shout as somebody is lining up for a winning putt

Is it ok and not cheating in cricket if somebody under a high catch a batsman runs over a barges the fielder out the way.

My point is most other sports have a line they draw where they say in this sport we will not accept you going over that line, that’s not acceptable

Football seems to have no line whatsoever? And seems to accept and condemn loads of cheating

And even worse when players massively go over that line no blame is attached to them.

Officials are actually blamed!!!

Are you saying it’s ok to do whatever you want and cheat as much as you want and hid behind it’s because you want to win?

 

[Ruleigan]

Every game should be retrospectively reviewed in the PL with punishments handed out accordingly.

A couple of weeks of reserve teams playing because everyone's suspended and it'll stop.

 

[SPUFF]

Player cheats, ref gets the blame. A sad indictment of the world in which we now live.

Think Reinildo went flying first couple of home games, screaming etc and the sol crowd didnt give the reaction he expected imo.

 

[Coeus]

I genuinely think it’s the culture of football that is pretty crazy as opposed to many other sports.

Imagine if many other sports purposefully encouraged cheating and then blamed the officials for not stopping it?

Of course I am not suggesting the above.

It’s entirely possible to try your fullest and best to win games and that as a first priority without cheating as much as they do.

Is they a need to roll around like you shot when you perfectly fine to get an opposition player sent off?

No

Is they a need to con a ref and dive for a foul and claim a pen when you 100% know it’s not a foul

No.

What is fair and acceptable to win in sport.

In the Ryder Cup is it ok and not cheating to cough and shout as somebody is lining up for a winning putt

Is it ok and not cheating in cricket if somebody under a high catch a batsman runs over a barges the fielder out the way.

My point is most other sports have a line they draw where they say in this sport we will not accept you going over that line, that’s not acceptable

Football seems to have no line whatsoever? And seems to accept and condemn loads of cheating

And even worse when players massively go over that line no blame is attached to them.

Officials are actually blamed!!!

Are you saying it’s ok to do whatever you want and cheat as much as you want and hid behind it’s because you want to win?

In golf, professionals attempt to cheat. In cricket, professionals attempt to cheat. In rugby, you get the picture. Difference is the level of officiating and consequence. You could argue that football is far more difficult to officiate, I couldnt say as im far from knowledgeable in those sports but I imagine that has its part to play in football officials getting blamed.

Im saying its footballers job to win the game within the given rules, if those rules are not enforced, i dont blame players or clubs for taking advantage.

 

[Voice of fair play]

In golf, professionals attempt to cheat. In cricket, professionals attempt to cheat. In rugby, you get the picture. Difference is the level of officiating and consequence. You could argue that football is far more difficult to officiate, I couldnt say as im far from knowledgeable in those sports but I imagine that has its part to play in football officials getting blamed.

Im saying its footballers job to win the game within the given rules, if those rules are not enforced, i dont blame players or clubs for taking advantage.

And with respect mate, that last sentence is why the culture of football is where it is?

You basically condoning players doing whatever they want without any responsibility whatsoever and then blaming the officials not them.

Other sports they don’t attempt to cheat anywhere near to same level as football not even close.

As like I say there is a line where the sport itself does not accept players crossing that line and if they did would be roundly condemned within that sport itself.

The difference is not down to the way it’s officiated it’s down to the culture of the sport from the bottom level upwards.

What’s the best culture I ask.

Sports that condemn cheating themselves?

or sports like football that actively encourage cheating and then if proven do not criticize the cheaters actually blame the officials for not spotting the cheating?

It’s a bizarre way to look at anything.

It’s like blaming the police for not been good enough to stop the shoplifters, car robbers etc rather than blaming the people actually doing it in the first place??

I presume you would not agree with them doing that just because they could get away with it?

 

[ivanthereasonable]

I know the refs are not blameless but this is 80% the players fault

Club coaches could stop it too. Too many players (cheats) going down from any contact, hoping play is stopped. When it's sometimes not, that crippled player is up and running after the ball.

I reckon refs are generally better now than in days of olde. There's way more scrutiny of them. And consider corner, long throw-ins or high upfield free kicks. It's impossible to even make out who the fuck is pulling who. 60-70-80''s refs didn't have any of that to keep an eye on. When you consider that incidents, especially goal mouth incidents, are scrutised and instantly replayed 3 time from all angles by Sky and other, even as the game progresses, the refs are under ridiculous pressure. Boro should have had 2 pens early on and then Southampton should have had a couple.

I think most refs do a great job. Obviously there are are good and bad performances, but as long as their bad decisions are not against us ( Villa at home about 10-12 years back, keeper (James ?) ran into his own player and our goal was dissallowed. Bastard. They got a draw because of that. I had a great view of that. Rant over.

 

[Coeus]

And with respect mate, that last sentence is why the culture of football is where it is?

You basically condoning players doing whatever they want without any responsibility whatsoever and then blaming the officials not them.

Other sports they don’t attempt to cheat anywhere near to same level as football not even close.

As like I say there is a line where the sport itself does not accept players crossing that line and if they did would be roundly condemned within that sport itself.

The difference is not down to the way it’s officiated it’s down to the culture of the sport from the bottom level upwards.

What’s the best culture I ask.

Sports that condemn cheating themselves?

or sports like football that actively encourage cheating and then if proven do not criticize the cheaters actually blame the officials for not spotting the cheating?

It’s a bizarre way to look at anything.

It’s like blaming the police for not been good enough to stop the shoplifters, car robbers etc rather than blaming the people actually doing it in the first place??

Seems pretty simplistic to me, working in ideals. Id probably look beyond why folks are shop lifting and robbing cars rather than just blaming them.

Other sports have officials that do not condone bending rules so less rules get bent despite it still be attempted, football officials are unable to stop rules being bent so they're often bent. Imo ofc.

 

[Dundas street kid]

Palace lad tried to con a pen last night.

When its a rarely booked attacker rather than say a centre half risking a ban, a yellow n bit embaresment seems insufficient punishment often when theres zero contact.

Mind Klinsman was some time ago n a master at ‘simulation’ was he the twat to kick this all off?

Rodney Marsh had a way of tripping himself up in the box that almost always resulted in a penalty.