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BazBall is Dead

GordonMuchallNo1Fan said:
I can handle us being rubbish if it's based on County form, I don't have an issue with that selection method.

I hope this is the model going forward regardless how good or bad it is.

This arrogant selection method isn't working and it's absolutely rotten.

I'm a big believer in reward based on form. That doesn't happen with the ECB
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Yeah I agree certainly been some horrendous picks like Bashir for example will never be able to work that out.

However simply picking players on county form is not the golden answer to our deep problems.

And can’t think of many if any ( possibly Rew) who are currently playing county cricket who would have made a diffrence imo to this outcome.

I do believe though whether you a selected for football or cricket national teams you pick what you think is best team rightly or wrongly to win games and not as reward
 
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GordonMuchallNo1Fan said:
I can handle us being rubbish if it's based on County form, I don't have an issue with that selection method.

I hope this is the model going forward regardless how good or bad it is.

This arrogant selection method isn't working and it's absolutely rotten.

I'm a big believer in reward based on form. That doesn't happen with the ECB
Click to expand...
Agree. Selection on "vibes" still has to have some sort of logic behind it.
I remember England selecting Trescothick and Vaughan, both of whom had modest country averages......but at least they had games under their belt, and then very quickly showed their abilities at Test level.

Selecting people like Bashir and Hull who barely had a first class wicket between them was arrogant and disrespectful.
Australia have shown England how to build a team AND a squad.
 
Voice of fair play said:
Yeah I agree certainly been some horrendous picks like Bashir for example will never be able to work that out.

However simply picking players on county form is not the golden answer to our deep problems.

And can’t think of many if any ( possibly Rew) who are currently playing county cricket who would have made a diffrence imo to this outcome.

I do believe though whether you a selected for football or cricket national teams you pick what you think is best team rightly or wrongly to win games and not as reward
Click to expand...

Most definitely a lot of deep problems, I have been saying this for years, the whole setup is absolutely rotten.

We cannot persist with so many players though they have had plenty chances. Pope 60+ caps is mind blowing

It's going to be interesting to see the fall out from this from mid-January.
 
What I would say is that they have spent 4 years building a bowling attack that is nothing more than pop-gun
Archer aside, would any of the other bowlers get near another Test squad?

Not to mention picking no other batters in the squad apart from Jacob Vibes
 
GordonMuchallNo1Fan said:
I can handle us being rubbish if it's based on County form, I don't have an issue with that selection method.

I hope this is the model going forward regardless how good or bad it is.

This arrogant selection method isn't working and it's absolutely rotten.

I'm a big believer in reward based on form. That doesn't happen with the ECB
Click to expand...
I agree a lot with this. It's much easier to take poor performance when a player has been picked on their CC form.
 
Provider said:
I agree a lot with this. It's much easier to take poor performance when a player has been picked on their CC form.
Click to expand...

Just my take really but I can't tolerate any more of Pope after over 60 test caps, he's averaging about 17 in Australia ffs :lol: :lol:

Could select a young English county cricketer who is playing local cricket in Australia at the moment and I doubt they would do much worse. 17 ffs!!! :lol::lol:
Also just seen this on twitter

"If Zak Crawley doesn't make 30 in the second innings, he will become the first opener in Test history to make fewer than 3000 Test runs from his first 100 innings at the top of the order"
 
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GordonMuchallNo1Fan said:
Just my take really but I can't tolerate any more of Pope after over 60 test caps, he's averaging about 17 in Australia ffs :lol: :lol:

Could select a young English county cricketer who is playing local cricket in Australia at the moment and I doubt they would do much worse. 17 ffs!!! :lol::lol:
Also just seen this on twitter

"If Zak Crawley doesn't make 30 in the second innings, he will become the first opener in Test history to make fewer than 3000 Test runs from his first 100 innings at the top of the order"
Click to expand...
Pope is the latest in a line of technically gifted batters who cannot perform at Test Level - Mark Ramprakash was one, Graeme Hick was another you could argue. James Vince was one for sure.
Pope should have been binned off years ago.

Top 3 positions all need looking at, could argue Duckett should survive was his average is at least acceptable, but there needs to be some major surgery on this side in 2026. Probably starting with Robert Key and "Baz" McCullum
 
GordonMuchallNo1Fan said:
Pretty much said what I've needed to for a very long time. I'm not at all shocked by any of this. Whole setup from the ECB and this side setup is absolutely rotten and arrogant. I've said it so many times and I'll say it again.... Pick players based on County Cricket form. If they don't want to play County Cricket that's entirely fine but piss off thinking of representing your country.
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England seem to have written off he idea of county cricket being any kind of indicator decades ago.

I think this dates back at least as far as Michael Vaughan coming into the team. He had a mediocre average for Yorkshire then came into the England team and was excellent. This produced a really strong narrative of "see, you can't use first class numbers as a guide, you've got to go with players who the selectors see "something" in". Even if this "something" isn't even producing runs or wickets in county cricket. This narrative has been around ever since. It may go back even further, but this is when I remember it from. Today you would probably call it selection based on "vibes".

It's almost like a Football Manager approach. They only want players they identified as wonderkids at a young age.

Yet contrast this with Australia. In every Ashes series one or two places tend to come up through form or injury, they bring in a 30 year old with little or no test experience but an excellent recent first class record. They then come into the team and absolutely smoke England.
 
Hulkster said:
England seem to have written off he idea of county cricket being any kind of indicator decades ago.

I think this dates back at least as far as Michael Vaughan coming into the team. He had a mediocre average for Yorkshire then came into the England team and was excellent. This produced a really strong narrative of "see, you can't use first class numbers as a guide, you've got to go with players who the selectors see "something" in". Even if this "something" isn't even producing runs or wickets in county cricket. This narrative has been around ever since. It may go back even further, but this is when I remember it from. Today you would probably call it selection based on "vibes".

It's almost like a Football Manager approach. They only want players they identified as wonderkids at a young age.

Yet contrast this with Australia. In every Ashes series one or two places tend to come up through form or injury, they bring in a 30 year old with little or no test experience but an excellent recent first class record. They then come into the team and absolutely smoke England.
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I agree with all of this. There is a counter argument that says experienced test players, who have played 5-6 warm up games on previous tours have also been walloped by Australia.
It is a notoriously hard place to tour (for England at least). However, I don't not believe that the England management have given us the best chance of winning down there
 
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Thing is though. Bazball. Root Ball. Cook Ball. Fletcher Ball. Athers, Bumble, Gooch. Whatever. The result is always the f***ing same because Australia are great at cricket and we aren’t.
 
Ian J said:
It's odd that no-one has mentioned Luke Wright who is the National Selector. Why is he immune from criticism?
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Fair enough. He's largely anonymous to me - probably because I'm convinced these selections are all coming from Key and McCullum.
No chance a nobody like Wright forces people like Hull, Bashir and Potts on coaches and captains who don't want them
 
GordonMuchallNo1Fan said:
Just my take really but I can't tolerate any more of Pope after over 60 test caps, he's averaging about 17 in Australia ffs :lol: :lol:

Could select a young English county cricketer who is playing local cricket in Australia at the moment and I doubt they would do much worse. 17 ffs!!! :lol::lol:
Also just seen this on twitter

"If Zak Crawley doesn't make 30 in the second innings, he will become the first opener in Test history to make fewer than 3000 Test runs from his first 100 innings at the top of the order"
Click to expand...
He's averaging that against Australia full stop :eek:

15 in Aus
 
GordonMuchallNo1Fan said:
oh that might have been it then, i've mis-heard. either way it's utter shite
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Not correcting you mate just worth highlighting how shit he is.

Just to come off your point about the CC. It's the fact the majority don't play the in it at all

We had games in September they should have been playing if they weren't in white ball squads.

The arrogance is they can just rock up to Australia and pick up from wherever they left off in July against India is just moronic.
 
Safc98 said:
Thing is though. Bazball. Root Ball. Cook Ball. Fletcher Ball. Athers, Bumble, Gooch. Whatever. The result is always the f***ing same because Australia are great at cricket and we aren’t.
Click to expand...
Except when they play in England where they haven't won a series since 2001.
 
Safc98 said:
How when we have 18 counties can we not produce two batters better than Crawley and Pope.
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Most of the top scoring openers from last season's Div 1 are well into their 30s and/or have already been discarded - Sibley, Hameed, Lyth, Slater, Lees.
 
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