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Australia v England, 2nd Test, 4th December 0400

GordonMuchallNo1Fan said:
Totally agree about it not all down to lack of cricket, a lot of it is just "brain dead cricket" as I call it. The Starc bait every single time, he bowls wide and we just want to smash him out the ground 90% of the time, absolutely mind blowing stupidity. You then have the wild bowling today under the lights, just utterly stupid, that is just stupidity. We even made Doggett look good in the 1st test.

Bethell for example totally messed about. Bashir appears to be the next one however my view on him are clear on here, he's not even county standard however this lot rate him and now suddenly don't, very odd.

Hopefully they can turn it around but I am struggling to see many positives after a very very poor day today. A few players dug us out of a hole yesterday and I was ok with the score but the bowling today, my word so so bad.
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Can't disagree with any of that.
 

What makes Cricket better than football (imho, plenty of people have a great argument to disagree) is when the shit has hit the fan on occasions so far in this series, the criticism hasn't been personal or vindictive but purely constructive and with merit. A random mention or Marnus playing down his catch and praising Jacks.. best sport in the world for me :cool:
 
Voice of fair play said:
Why would someone purposely try to provoke bites?

Rather than just sensible debate where like you say everybody like you say is entitled to a view.

It’s the definition of immature coming on here to provoke bites?

Not sure but I find that the case

Like I say can only repeat rightly or wrongly defeats against Aussies puts soo much pressure to change things.

They will have to admit and take responsibility they have got it very wrong
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Provoke bites
Presumably because they're amused that someone takes offense at a clearly light hearted aside about golf so they repeat it.The players apparent refusal to adapt and correct shortcomings naturally leads to comments about giving preference to golf over nets. In what way is that immature?

My salient point,however,which you don't address is why you constantly castigated those, myself included,who expressed concern about the limitations of the bazball approach. Why label them negative, whingers, etc. You appear finally to now accept that these concerns have been shown to be valid. If you accept sensible,open ,debate how could you justify insulting those who expressed those concerns.You were guilty of that, and used unjustifiable,derogatory terminology.Not unreasonably,I find that offensive.
Justification please.
 
GordonMuchallNo1Fan said:
Hold on a minute here, that "golf craic" is clearly aimed at me so I'll reply.

This team deserve criticism. The whole setup deserves criticism. Have this team really improved things, results aren't particularly great with the stand out NZ away as only the "big team series win".

We were embarrassed in the first test, we declined a pink ball warm up game and the batting and bowling have been absolutely shite. As I said earlier the bowling in the 2nd innings in the 1st test and the bowling today is about as bad as I have ever seen, the short bowling under the lights today especially was absolutely wild. The manner of some of the wickets we've gifted has been absolutely appalling and embarrassing at times, for example Brook yesterday it was school kid cricket, even the bowler looked embarrassed by it and Starc just keeps pissing himself as he doesn't even have to try, just lays the bait and we take it 95% of the time.

We have prepared for this series for around 4 years (correct me if I'm wrong). We've prepared a spinner who isn't county championship standard for several years and all of a sudden he's nowhere to be seen, what does that tell you? The fascination back home resting these players is questionable as it was in September, and the "warm up game" against the Lions was half arsed at best when you watch the highlights. It was an arrogant prep for such an important series against a side who for me aren't great and are missing two (3 this test) key bowlers who would absolutely destroy us.

As I said earlier Kookaburra test when a test series was on, meaning no test players benfited from it, a totally pointless exercise.

There is no defending this and I'm not just saying that about those on the field either, the whole setup is rotten, which is something I have been consistent about for many years.

The fascination with Crawley is mind blowing, he's saved himself this test as he seems to have a habit of doing, but he just isn't good enough.

The preparation has been abysmal, the application so far this series has been absymal, the game management has been school kid stuff and performances in general have been unacceptable.

Yes they're exciting for a neutral but that is in no way a compliment, buffet bowling today will be exciting for some as batters just smash it out the ground but that shouldn't be a positive endorsement of "bazball", because to any cricket fan, it's just rank bad cricket.

They deserve every ounce of criticism at the moment because it's absolutely shite what they are serving up and the setup comes across as a very very arrogant group/setup on and off the field.

Also worth noting the body language at times today was rotten.

They need to get their fingers out & start applying themselves maturely towards test cricket, this isn't T20/One Day Cricket.
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Really good post. For me thought I believe they are working hard. Practicing hard every day, catching pink ball in all sorts of conditions, practicing on hard fast bouncy surfaces. There prep might not have been the right prep but I don’t doubt that they have worked hard. However your point about in match decision making with both bat and ball are your most valid points imo. You can prepare all you like but if you make daft split second decisions batting, can’t bowl a few balls in the same place and compound it by dropping catches you should catch in your sleep then you are going to lose matches against anyone
Parkside said:
Provoke bites
Presumably because they're amused that someone takes offense at a clearly light hearted aside about golf so they repeat it.The players apparent refusal to adapt and correct shortcomings naturally leads to comments about giving preference to golf over nets. In what way is that immature?

My salient point,however,which you don't address is why you constantly castigated those, myself included,who expressed concern about the limitations of the bazball approach. Why label them negative, whingers, etc. You appear finally to now accept that these concerns have been shown to be valid. If you accept sensible,open ,debate how could you justify insulting those who expressed those concerns.You were guilty of that, and used unjustifiable,derogatory terminology.Not unreasonably,I find that offensive.
Justification please.
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Offensive 🤣
 
Parkside said:
Provoke bites
Presumably because they're amused that someone takes offense at a clearly light hearted aside about golf so they repeat it.The players apparent refusal to adapt and correct shortcomings naturally leads to comments about giving preference to golf over nets. In what way is that immature?

My salient point,however,which you don't address is why you constantly castigated those, myself included,who expressed concern about the limitations of the bazball approach. Why label them negative, whingers, etc. You appear finally to now accept that these concerns have been shown to be valid. If you accept sensible,open ,debate how could you justify insulting those who expressed those concerns.You were guilty of that, and used unjustifiable,derogatory terminology.Not unreasonably,I find that offensive.
Justification please.
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As for your first point my point still stands why provoke bites, simply for amusement???

I find it immature not just on this subject but any?

On the second point I didn’t castigate those who expressed fair, reasoned rational points about been more flexible and adaptable.


However I did castigate those over the top comments such as ‘I hate that player’ ‘ ‘ they spineless bastards’ etc etc.

It was those who I mainly pulled up who you kept defending in the name of passion;)
I think you getting confused with insulting posters for insulting players from their own country which I did.

And putting other opinions across in a fair way to posters who put fair arguments across contrary to my view.

There is a difference
 
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So many runs behind square just tells you how short and wide we bowled. Why though the reluctance to have a 3rd man? Ridiculous to me, but it smacks of bravado or stubborness not to swallow their pride to put one in.

How many times are we going to get beat 4 or 5 nil down there, have a complete clear out and reset, spend the next 4 years apparently planning for the next, only to not learn from any of the previous mistakes? It's like we turn up each time with zero understanding of what it takes to win.

Do we need an Aussie coach in the setup? Bit like Troy Cooley in the 2005 Ashes?
 
Voice of fair play said:
As for your first point my point still stands why provoke bites, simply for amusement???

I find it immature not just on this subject but any?

On the second point I didn’t castigate those who expressed fair, reasoned rational points about been more flexible and adaptable.


However I did castigate those over the top comments such as ‘I hate that player’ ‘ ‘ they spineless bastards’ etc etc.

It was those who I mainly pulled up who you kept defending in the name of passion;)
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It's light hearted amusement , ribald humour which I'm sure isn't intended to offend.OK,you take offense and find it immature. I say-lighten up
I wasn't defending what you considered ott,I was simply explaining their irrational behaviour. They are passionate -it does lead to irrational responses.
disagree certainly but what gives you the right to insult them for it?
You castigated anyone who questioned bazball -that's fact. It was the perfect panacea in your view.
You've got a convenient memory.
You complain about posters insulting but you feel free to insult others
Hypocrisy?
 
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Parkside said:
It's light hearted amusement , ribald humour which I'm sure isn't intended to offend.OK,you take offense and find it immature. I say-lighten up
I wasn't defending what you considered ott,I was simply explaining their irrational behaviour. They are passionate -it does lead to irrational responses.
disagree certainly but what gives you the right to insult them for it?
You castigated anyone who questioned bazball -that's fact. It was the perfect panacea in your view.
You've got a convenient memory.
You complain about posters insulting but you feel free to insult others
Hypocrisy?
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Absolutely nothing funny about golf craic
 
Parkside said:
It's light hearted amusement , ribald humour which I'm sure isn't intended to offend.OK,you take offense and find it immature. I say-lighten up
I wasn't defending what you considered ott,I was simply explaining their irrational behaviour. They are passionate -it does lead to irrational responses.
disagree certainly but what gives you the right to insult them for it?
You castigated anyone who questioned bazball -that's fact. It was the perfect panacea in your view.
You've got a convenient memory.
You complain about posters insulting but you feel free to insult others
Hypocrisy?
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I think you barking up the wrong tree mate.

Once again I put a contrary view across to opposing fair views regarding Bazball in a fair way.

And castigated people who put across unnecessary over the top comments and insults to our own players

I have over 22 thousand posts on here without recalling even one warning, suggesting any insults I have possibly given are hardly ‘ offensive’
 
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Voice of fair play said:
I think you barking up the wrong tree mate.

Once again I put a contrary view across to opposing fair views regarding Bazball in a fair way

And castigated people who put across unnecessary over the top comments and insults to our own players

I have over 22 thousand posts on here without recalling even one warning, suggesting any insults I have possibly given are hardly ‘ offensive’
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It's all subjective opinion. Whether you agree or not to viewpoints. All I'm querying is why do you object to posters posting insult to others when you do exactly the same yourself? There's are ott but your's aren't?
Haven't a clue what the metaphorical barking up the wrong tree is referencing.
Basically I can't understand why you take such offense at opposing viewpoints.
Were all entitled to a viewpoint. Some express ten more forcibly than others 😀
 
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Parkside said:
It's all subjective opinion. Whether you agree or not to viewpoints. All I'm querying is why do you object to posters posting insult to others when you do exactly the same yourself? There's are ott but your's aren't?
Haven't a clue what the metaphorical barking up the wrong tree is referencing.
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Its simple really it’s about what I consider fair and reasonable.

I think it’s fair and reasonable to critcise performances and point out deficiencies of a side, player, captain or coach in a constructive way and have a subjective opinion.

I will respond to them in a fair way back or try too.

However if someone abuses or insults people unfairly constantly, I am more them happy to insult them for abusing people unfairly.
 
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Parkside said:
We’re all entitled to a viewpoint. Some express ten more forcibly than others 😀
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Surely there has to be a line where it’s crossed too forcibly?

Or is it ok to say what you want all the time irrespective of what you say as long as you defend it because your passionate
 
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Voice of fair play said:
Its simple really it’s about what I consider fair and reasonable.

I think it’s fair and reasonable to critcise performances and point out deficiencies of a side, player, captain or coach in a constructive way and have a subjective opinion.

I will respond to them in a fair way back or try too.

However if someone abuses or insults people unfairly I am more them happy to insult them for abusing people unfairly.
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Yes,some express opinions more forcibly than others. Tit for tat. It's all subjective-what's unfair to some is spur of the moment deserved comment to others.Fair enough,but then you're stooping to the level that you're objecting to. As I 've argued many times,passionate comment is irrational. It's understandable and excusable on that ground imo. You're rather passionate yourself! and hence irrational at times,possibly? I certainly am when Players do something which disappoints me.
 
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