Real class of 92
Full Back
Our capacity then was a couple of hundred over 40,000 and we had 4 consecutive seasons over 39,000. Almost impossible to get 40,000 average unless every away team brought a full allocation.
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MutantParvoParmo
Full Back
The 16 years after that the 39999 dropped in half
Real class of 92
Full Back
Not been selective at all. Simply responding to Sunderland fan who stated we have never had regular crowds above yours. I have provided a 30+ year period where this is untrue. It's a factual response to a lazy statement.
Bears Beets
Striker
More Leeds bellends signing up talking about attendances ffs 
Real class of 92
Full Back
Happy to provide you with the drop off in Sunderland's support if you want. Lost 12,000 in one season in 03-04 and still averaged less than Leeds in their promotion season in 04-05, 20,000 below SOL capacity.
MutantParvoParmo
Full Back
30 years that's more than half your entire history in the top flight. Must of been challenging and once you were restored to the second division when leeds have spent most of its history 20k crowds were restored.
Sgt Pepper
Striker
The difference being, there is a difference between overall size of a fanbase and those within the fanbase who actually go. Leeds will naturally have massive potential support down to pure geography. They’ve also had some decent periods of success in their recent history e.g within the lifetimes of people still alive now, to help that.Leeds have a bigger fan base than us. I'm not even sure how people can argue this
Well that’s just pure speculation because you simply don’t know. What Leeds might lose out on in this debate by prices, they gain by the sheer size of area they can draw support from. Massive city and dominate support in a lot of Yorkshire.
Firstly you’re comparing a period where you were consistently a First Division team, whereas we spent a full half of that same period in the Second Division. Not only were you a First Division team, you won two league championships in that time and finished runners up, 3rd, 4th and 5th and various other respectable positions loads of times. Meanwhile, for the period we weren’t in the Second Division, we were consistent strugglers in the bottom third of the First Division with finishes between 15th and 21st.Never exceeded SAFC crowds in your history on a regular basis
In the 20 years after both teams were promoted in 63-64 we had higher average attendances for 16 of those 20 seasons. And not by a tad. Six of those seasons we comfortably had higher averages of 10,000- 15,000 and 2 of those seasons between 20,000-25,000.
We also had a run of 12 consecutive seasons from 87-98 were our home gates where higher than Sunderland's. Your move to SOL with a bigger capacity changed that but before that we had and will once our ground is expanded again have the bigger home average. Even your promotion season in 2004-05 your home attendance lagged ours when we were mid table in the championship.
Secondly, you’re a comparing another time of relative success for Leeds that had another title win chucked in and plenty of top flight seasons which included top 5 finishes. Meanwhile, we had what at the time was the worst period in our history that saw us slide into Division Three and have several other close encounters with going back there.
MutantParvoParmo
Full Back
Probably because they were diabolical and record low prem points twice came about.i remember them seasons the fans used to watch a pair of pigeons who were raising the young chick's on the roof at the sol as it was more entertaining than the football. Poor times.
Bears Beets
Striker
Real class of 92
Full Back
Wasn't what was stated though was it? I merely responded with 30+ years to a doubting Thomas who stated we have never regularly exceeded your home support. Let's see if you can sell out for once in a big game eh.
Barista
Midfield
Leeds is a very affluent city with higher incomes on average. Ticket prices for each club probably reflect the same average % of disposable income for our respective fanbases.
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ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK
Winger
Is the pointless dick waving still going on? 
I'm bored waiting for Barcelona v Inter to kick off so I had a quick look at all attendances for both clubs league history and divided it by league games and we have a few 100 more average attendance per game at around 26,000. Prior to the Premier League, Leeds had a few 100 more in their favour so not exactly a huge difference that I and possibly most others would expect.
According to 1 website (
:edit: canny table here would have save me a few mins as I should have just googled it instead of using wiki!
Pre 1963, Leeds average position was just under 22nd as they'd spent more time in Div 2 than Div 1 and they'd been top 10 in Div 1 summit like 5 times and won nowt (well Div 2 once). We averaged 9.24 for the position as we were always in Div 1 and the 50s we were the Bank Of England club with previous titles. Up to that point we had just under an average of 3,000 more fans per game and since 1963 Leeds have averaged a few 100 more than us and they've averaged 18th position and we are 25th.
As I said, it's all pointless dick waving as we know we get the bigger crowds than Leeds and if we had success we'd get more anarl
I'm bored waiting for Barcelona v Inter to kick off so I had a quick look at all attendances for both clubs league history and divided it by league games and we have a few 100 more average attendance per game at around 26,000. Prior to the Premier League, Leeds had a few 100 more in their favour so not exactly a huge difference that I and possibly most others would expect.
According to 1 website (
You must be logged on to see external links
), our average is the 11th best and Leeds is 12th best (
You must be logged on to see external links
) so I'm guessing Man Utd, Man City, Liverpool, Arsenal, Everton, Newcastle, Aston Villa, Chelsea, Spurs and West Ham are the 10 above us.:edit: canny table here would have save me a few mins as I should have just googled it instead of using wiki!
You must be logged on to see external links
Logon or register to see this image
Pre 1963, Leeds average position was just under 22nd as they'd spent more time in Div 2 than Div 1 and they'd been top 10 in Div 1 summit like 5 times and won nowt (well Div 2 once). We averaged 9.24 for the position as we were always in Div 1 and the 50s we were the Bank Of England club with previous titles. Up to that point we had just under an average of 3,000 more fans per game and since 1963 Leeds have averaged a few 100 more than us and they've averaged 18th position and we are 25th.
As I said, it's all pointless dick waving as we know we get the bigger crowds than Leeds and if we had success we'd get more anarl
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Sgt Pepper
Striker
And I was replying to you to add some context to what you were saying, not the other poster. We’d be selling out every game as well if our ground had the same capacity as yours. Same can’t be said for you if you’d had ours over recent times, well until your non-diehards decided following you became fashionable again in recent years for the first time since the going got tough around 2003-04.
Barista
Midfield
We win by 12 million based on total attendancesIs the pointless dick waving still going on?
I'm bored waiting for Barcelona v Inter to kick off so I had a quick look at all attendances for both clubs league history and divided it by league games and we have a few 100 more average attendance per game at around 26,000. Prior to the Premier League, Leeds had a few 100 more in their favour so not exactly a huge difference that I and possibly most others would expect.
According to 1 website (You must be logged on to see external links), our average is the 11th best and Leeds is 12th best (You must be logged on to see external links) so I'm guessing Man Utd, Man City, Liverpool, Arsenal, Everton, Newcastle, Aston Villa, Chelsea, Spurs and West Ham are the 10 above us.
:edit: canny table here would have save me a few mins as I should have just googled it instead of using wiki!
You must be logged on to see external links
Logon or register to see this image
Pre 1963, Leeds average position was just under 22nd as they'd spent more time in Div 2 than Div 1 and they'd been top 10 in Div 1 summit like 5 times and won nowt (well Div 2 once). We averaged 9.24 for the position as we were always in Div 1 and the 50s we were the Bank Of England club with previous titles. Up to that point we had just under an average of 3,000 more fans per game and since 1963 Leeds have averaged a few 100 more than us and they've averaged 18th position and we are 25th.
As I said, it's all pointless dick waving as we know we get the bigger crowds than Leeds and if we had success we'd get more anarl
.I think a truer (and fairer) picture of average attendances is not to simply divide total attendance by number of league games played by each club as clubs such as West Ham and Leeds were minnows in the early decades of football (Leeds United weren’t even formed until 1919) and in these early decades (pre WW1) attendances across the league were much smaller so the average attendance data can be skewed to an extent in favour of clubs who joined the football league at a later date. All our average crowds pre 1919 (Leeds entered the football league in 1920 and West Ham in 1919) are below our long term average, thus lowering our all time average.
The table above shows that SAFC have played 800+ games (400+ home games) more than Leeds and West Ham, and these were when football was in its infancy and crowds much lower.
Therefore a truer comparison would be to only include our games/crowds since 1919/1920 which would be using the same data set as Leeds and West Ham.
Based on games played since 1919 SAFC average attendance is 31,653 vs Leeds 26,110.
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ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK
Winger
I just deleted the years prior to 1920 and we get 29,096 in 4,033 games and Leeds 25,912 in 4,100 games (cba to do West Ham as watching Barc Inter now)We win by 12 million based on total attendances
I think a truer (and fairer) picture of average attendances is not to simply divide total attendance by number of league games played by each club as clubs such as West Ham and Leeds were minnows in the early decades of football (Leeds United weren’t even formed until 1919) and in these early decades (pre WW1) attendances across the league were much smaller so the average attendance data can be skewed to an extent in favour of clubs who joined the football league at a later date. All our average crowds pre 1919 (Leeds entered the football league in 1920 and West Ham in 1919) are below our long term average, thus lowering our all time average.
The table above shows that SAFC have played 800+ games more than Leeds and West Ham, and these were when football was in its infancy and crowds much lower.
Therefore a truer comparison would be to only include our games/crowds since 1919/1920 which would be using the same data set as Leeds and West Ham.
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forzamilansafc
Striker
When was the last time Leeds failed to sell out an away game? I reckon if you give Leeds 7k for every away game this season they'd sell the lot. They're in the category of Man United and Liverpool as the only clubs who could do that imo.
1. Man United
2. Liverpool
3. Leeds
4. Mags
5. Tottenham
6. Arsenal
7. Us
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MutantParvoParmo
Full Back
Give them 7k when they are average in the championship and they won't. United and Liverpool because they are huge clubs. Leeds because they have a huge population and catchment. Is it really impressive a population of well over a million can sell 7k tickets or have a waiting list of 25k. I don't think so it's just maths and geography. Clubs with small catchment and big crowds even when crap for decades impress me.
Sgt Pepper
Striker
We were talking about home support numbers not away support, two different things. Never knocked their away support, and tbh wasn’t even knocking their home support either. I was just pointing out fanbases can be and are in some cases very big and bloated by numbers of fair weathers so it doesn’t necessarily equate to giant attendances all the time. Historic attendances show Leeds and us have very similar hardcore fanbases with us slightly ahead on attenders, I would say their overall fanbase would be bigger though if hypothetically every Leeds fan in the country was counted and every SAFC fan was, which is dictated by a mix of geography and club performance. They have sadly had higher highs and more of them than we have over the last 50-60 years. Mags used to not sell out all their aways for what it’s worth either, until 2021 obviously.
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Bielsas Bucket Boy
Goalkeeper
Feck me this thread is ridiculous as people try to compare apples and oranges and frankly I’m really not sure it even matters. Both clubs have suffered from pi55-poor ownership at very stages and both have the potential to regularly generate 50k crowds assuming a ticket pricing strategy that is conducive to this happening
Seeing as Leeds’ home attendances are of such interest to Sunderland fans, lets add a bit of context.
Sunderland's 25/26 adult ST price for behind the goals is £490.
In 2012/13 (just as an example and I have the prices to hand) an adult ST at Leeds in the Kop was £582. I'd like to see how many STs Sunderland would sell at £582 now, or at the inflation adjusted price of £824.56.
All during a period of boycotting Bates.
Sunderland's 25/26 adult ST price for behind the goals is £490.
In 2012/13 (just as an example and I have the prices to hand) an adult ST at Leeds in the Kop was £582. I'd like to see how many STs Sunderland would sell at £582 now, or at the inflation adjusted price of £824.56.
All during a period of boycotting Bates.
