Elland road upgrade

[Bielsas Bucket Boy]

The population of Sunderland is projected to rise by around 50k over the next 25 years, probably similar numbers for county Durham, and with football becoming more watched we will need to increase the stadium, especially if we have a period of relative success.

Or just put your prices up by 15% and fill what you have with more profit per head

 

[the sleeping giant]

Attendances over the game are far different to previous decades and been steadily increasing since the mid 80s

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To think that Leeds couldn't fill it after being extended is being naive and it's obvious the owners will have looked into it in detail. With the current 35k crowds, they get £30m in gate receipts as they limit season tickets and don't have generous concession prices. To put that into perspective, we got £11.6m from 40k fans so there's a huge difference in what fans pay on average at both clubs. They're actually 7th highest paying fans if you just do the basic calculation of match day revenue divided by fans as I hoyed this up previously and was surprised at it.

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These were their prices for 2018/19 after the finished 13th and had been out of the Premier League since 2003, spent 3 seasons in League One in 2007-2010 then spent 6 of the following 8 seasons finishing 13th or below in the Championship and just average over 31k in 2017/18. In many areas it's more expensive than we are now.



If we had exactly the same pricing structure as Leeds limiting ST sales and concession areas then we wouldn't be getting the 40k we get now. That's what's class about the SOL size as the owners can't take the piss with pricing due to demand exceeding supply. Though as we've seen this season they've dramatically increased concession prices in the East & West stands and dropped the U16 down to U14. This is only the start as it will change more if we hit the Premier League as they know crowds will increase.

Leeds will easily get 1,000s more attending and they've got plenty of wiggle room to create concessions that would attract parents to take kids to games like we can. This then gets them hooked at an early age and gets them to go to games even when times are crap.

All this discussion about crowds online is usually just pointless dick waving as there's far more than just looking an average number, unless it's being used in a school playground between kids.

Some great and very relevant stats included there and I fully agree that the resurgence of football crowds in the 90's is reflected across across most clubs.

The question mark for the owners (and lets not forget that Leeds have a history of owners over-extending) is what happens if Leeds United cannot maintain the current demand. If they quickly fall back to the Championship and once again have a period of struggle in that league I would question if they have a hardcore 30k+ fanbase who will keep going regardless.

All past indicators suggest not and whilst people will talk of the 'pull' in the area towards the undoubtedly biggest club in West Yorks. it's also the case that football does not command the same importance in families & everyday lives as it does with north-east and Merseyside teams (as an example).

Their away support is excellent. Their home support has always been more flaky. Maybe that will unwanted reputation no longer applies but I have my doubts.

 

[niallquinnsdisco]

The population of Sunderland is projected to rise by around 50k over the next 25 years, probably similar numbers for county Durham, and with football becoming more watched we will need to increase the stadium, especially if we have a period of relative success.

Bugger, I won't be around then and people not even born yet are going to see us win trophies after I have put up with awful football, Brett angell, Gareth hall etc al. That's unfair, I just threw my arms up in disgust.

 

[Bielsas Bucket Boy]

The population of Sunderland is projected to rise by around 50k over the next 25 years, probably similar numbers for county Durham, and with football becoming more watched we will need to increase the stadium, especially if we have a period of relative success.

Or just put your prices up by 15% and fill what you have with more profit per head? I’m

Who are SFC then bucket shagger? Enlighten us all.

do I really have to type the A and call it SAFC? Are you really that wedded to the word Association in your club title? Loads of clubs are Associations…or are you one of those alpha male types that secretly longs to receive a bit of A?

 

[Mark E Smith]

Full of 53,000 @unts give or take a few away fans.

 

[Bears Beets]

Or just put your prices up by 15% and fill what you have with more profit per head? I’m

do I really have to type the A and call it SAFC? Are you really that wedded to the word Association in your club title? Loads of clubs are Associations…or are you one of those alpha male types that secretly longs to receive a bit of A?

Considering we are called Sunderland AFC, at least call it the right name when spouting shite about us, shit for brains.

 

[Pingu]

They didn't even average one season of 30000 when they were in League 1. Highest was 26k. Their fans deserted them.

Now go look up prices for these seasons, they were paying more than most Premier League clubs for League One football, if we had the same prices we'd have seen attendances of about 15k in the SOL.

 

[Real class of 92]

Now go look up prices for these seasons, they were paying more than most Premier League clubs for League One football, if we had the same prices we'd have seen attendances of about 15k in the SOL.

Correct. These are our season ticket prices from 2006/07. Cheapest £450 in Family Stand up to £695. Child price £205.

Like you say there is a context. 20 years on and I'm guessing Sunderland still have ST cheaper than we were getting asked to pay 2 decades ago in our relegation season in the championship.

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[Gobuchul]

Or just put your prices up by 15% and fill what you have with more profit per head? I’m

do I really have to type the A and call it SAFC? Are you really that wedded to the word Association in your club title? Loads of clubs are Associations…or are you one of those alpha male types that secretly longs to receive a bit of A?

All Clubs are Association Football Clubs.

 

[Gucci Massive]

Let's kick that one into touch for a starter. It really isn't. Not even close.

Ah you're right actually. Wakefield has a bigger population than Sunderland.

 

[E Tenebris Lux]

We have had more seasons with bigger attendances than Sunderland over the last 60 years despite you having a larger ground capacity for nearly half of that time. Let's not pretend that either club has not got fickle crowds. Both clubs have had years where average attendances were very poor. There is a thread on here asking whether you will manage to sell out your biggest game for years in the play off semi-final.

You are absolutely ignorant and making facts up. You’ve never exceeded SAFC crowds in your history on a regular basis.

 

[Pingu]

You are absolutely ignorant and making facts up. You’ve never exceeded SAFC crowds in your history on a regular basis.

Why are Sunderland tickets always so cheap?

if owners could get away with charging more they would but they know if they take the piss the fans will vote with their feet and rightly so.

Until the ground move most seasons Leeds averaged a lot more people than Sunderland.

 

[Real class of 92]

You are absolutely ignorant and making facts up. You’ve never exceeded SAFC crowds in your history on a regular basis.

I can post them up if you want

 

[Wakoro]

Why are Sunderland tickets always so cheap?

if owners could get away with charging more they would but they know if they take the piss the fans will vote with their feet and rightly so.

Until the ground move most seasons Leeds averaged a lot more people than Sunderland.

Bear in mind Leeds were very successful while Sunderland have had little to no success since pre war. Also Sunderland is in the second most deprived region in the country, people in Leeds have more money generally.

 

[EFC]

Not sure what concern Leeds stadium expansion on a Sunderland message board is to do with Everton fans mind. During our last sustained spell in the prem 92-04 we had bigger home average attendances than EFC.

Even if I remove 1992-94 when both our home crowds were impacted (our attendances were higher) during stadium renovations that reduced capacity, in the following 11 seasons our home average was bigger than Everton's for 6 of those seasons.

92-04 is an era where Leeds had 8 x Top 5 finishes, including 1 x League Title. In that era we struggled for most of it in the bottom half, with more than one Relegation battle so it's hardly surrpising you got slightly better crowds. I could equally just choose a select era to counter that, which is why looking over both clubs histories is a more accurate representation of the matchgoing support.

Still not heard a valid reason why you never averaged over 40K in your history when peer clubs did. West Ham for example have got the Stadium Capacity to get higher than 40K crowds since moving and have easily managed it across a season. And that's despite having nowhere near the level of enjoyment Leeds fans did in their peak era when Elland Road had a big enough Capacity for 50K+ crowds.

As for the Sunderland message board thing, we are both posting on a different clubs forum so it's a bit of a pointless dig. I'm interested in both Villa and Leeds Stadium Plans so I have commented about them.

 

[Real class of 92]

You are absolutely ignorant and making facts up. You’ve never exceeded SAFC crowds in your history on a regular basis.

Never exceeded SAFC crowds in your history on a regular basis

In the 20 years after both teams were promoted in 63-64 we had higher average attendances for 16 of those 20 seasons. And not by a tad. Six of those seasons we comfortably had higher averages of 10,000- 15,000 and 2 of those seasons between 20,000-25,000.

We also had a run of 12 consecutive seasons from 87-98 were our home gates where higher than Sunderland's. Your move to SOL with a bigger capacity changed that but before that we had and will once our ground is expanded again have the bigger home average. Even your promotion season in 2004-05 your home attendance lagged ours when we were mid table in the championship.

 

[Pingu]

Still not heard a valid reason why you never averaged over 40K in your history when peer clubs did. West Ham for example have got the Stadium Capacity to get higher than 40K crowds since moving and have easily managed it across a season. And that's despite having nowhere near the level of enjoyment Leeds fans did in their peak era when Elland Road had a big enough Capacity for 50K+ crowds.

Because the grounds not been big enough...

They've been trying to expand it on and off since the mid 90s.

You'd have to go back to the 55-60 years for any chance of trying to get over 40k into the ground and even then due to the size of the ground it wasn't really possible, most would be standing with a terrible view where you couldn't really see the pitch.

 

[Real class of 92]

Because the grounds not been big enough...

They've been trying to expand it on and off since the mid 90s.

You'd have to go back to the 55-60 years for any chance of trying to get over 40k into the ground and even then due to the size of the ground it wasn't really possible, most would be standing with a terrible view where you couldn't really see the pitch.

92-04 is an era where Leeds had 8 x Top 5 finishes, including 1 x League Title. In that era we struggled for most of it in the bottom half, with more than one Relegation battle so it's hardly surrpising you got slightly better crowds. I could equally just choose a select era to counter that, which is why looking over both clubs histories is a more accurate representation of the matchgoing support.

Still not heard a valid reason why you never averaged over 40K in your history when peer clubs did. West Ham for example have got the Stadium Capacity to get higher than 40K crowds since moving and have easily managed it across a season. And that's despite having nowhere near the level of enjoyment Leeds fans did in their peak era when Elland Road had a big enough Capacity for 50K+ crowds.

As for the Sunderland message board thing, we are both posting on a different clubs forum so it's a bit of a pointless dig. I'm interested in both Villa and Leeds Stadium Plans so I have commented about them.

You won the FA Cup and qualified for the Champions League in the same period

 

[MutantParvoParmo]

Because the grounds not been big enough...

They've been trying to expand it on and off since the mid 90s.

You'd have to go back to the 55-60 years for any chance of trying to get over 40k into the ground and even then due to the size of the ground it wasn't really possible, most would be standing with a terrible view where you couldn't really see the pitch.

Leeds had many 40k crowds between 2001-2003/4. I went to a Leeds boro match at Elland road in may 2002 and they had 40k that day. Still never averaged 40k ever tho. They have had some good teams and good times over the last 60 years too. With that catchment leeds have even Boro would sell out a 60k plus stadium consistently. They are not far behind Leeds now with a small catchment.

 

[Barista]

Never exceeded SAFC crowds in your history on a regular basis

In the 20 years after both teams were promoted in 63-64 we had higher average attendances for 16 of those 20 seasons. And not by a tad. Six of those seasons we comfortably had higher averages of 10,000- 15,000 and 2 of those seasons between 20,000-25,000.

We also had a run of 12 consecutive seasons from 87-98 were our home gates where higher than Sunderland's. Your move to SOL with a bigger capacity changed that but before that we had and will once our ground is expanded again have the bigger home average. Even your promotion season in 2004-05 your home attendance lagged ours when we were mid table in the championship.

You’re being selective in choosing years in the 60s, 70s, 90s when you were winning trophies and competing in the European Cup/Champions League. We can all play that game.
Pre 1963 and post 2000 - please provide all the years when your gates were higher

As for the 73 cup final, you were very outnumbered.

Historically Leeds were not even classed as the biggest club in Yorkshire - a team in a two club city 30 miles to the south was.

Leeds is the 3rd largest city in England after London and Birmingham and is a one club city. You really should be the best supported team in the country……….