Women & Girls cricket

[Fleagle]

wonder what the set up in next year as the warriors no longer exist, hopefully have the womens team have an academy or 2nd XI under the professionals

northumberland will go back under their own umbrella id presume

I never understood why they broke the previous structure, with the Diamonds providing a genuine three county top tier with games at Riverside and even the odd one at South North, and the two performance pathway teams under that umbrella. It worked fine. Even as a fan of County cricket, I don’t see County Cricket as the only way to structure the game.

And I get the feeling the treatment of the women’s game matters imagewise for cricket. It’s already got a reputation for being elitist (if you look at the public school predominance at the highest level, you get the point) and having an endemic issue with racism (five minutes in the comment section of some Yorkshire social media is enough to see the justification for that). It can ill afford becoming the poster child for misogyny in sport as well. That would see it further off into social irrelevancy.

 

[brandon]

And I get the feeling the treatment of the women’s game matters imagewise for cricket.

Will it though?

The fact is, it’s not a great spectacle is it? Now before people start throwing the ‘m’ word around, you only need to look at the attendances to see it hasn’t taken off in the way the women hoped it would.

Sir Jim Ratcliffe* came out this week and laid bare the stark and harsh reality about women’s football versus men’s and ultimately it’s what most of us thought all along. When finances in cricket in general are so tight right now, the game can ill afford to throw more good money at a failing concept (I’m talking both about the 16.4 and women’s cricket here).

Elite sport always has and always will be a meritocracy, not charity.

*"The men's team make £800m," he explained in an interview with

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. "The women's team cost £10m."

 

[Sillypoint]

Will it though?

The fact is, it’s not a great spectacle is it? Now before people start throwing the ‘m’ word around, you only need to look at the attendances to see it hasn’t taken off in the way the women hoped it would.

how much of it have you actually watched, i found the womens games are actually a closer battle between bat and ball than the mens, a few more "proper" shots as some cant clear the rope (but Plenty still do)

Not sure your point about the attendance is right either, 10k at the oval the other day and 11 and half on sunday at OT on for the womens games, i do get that its more people who are going to the mens game coming in earlier, but that suggests that it is taking off somewhat

 

[Fleagle]

Will it though?

The fact is, it’s not a great spectacle is it? Now before people start throwing the ‘m’ word around, you only need to look at the attendances to see it hasn’t taken off in the way the women hoped it would.

Sir Jim Ratcliffe* came out this week and laid bare the stark and harsh reality about women’s football versus men’s and ultimately it’s what most of us thought all along. When finances in cricket in general are so tight right now, the game can ill afford to throw more good money at a failing concept (I’m talking both about the 16.4 and women’s cricket here).

Elite sport always has and always will be a meritocracy, not charity.

*"The men's team make £800m," he explained in an interview with

You must be logged on to see external links

. "The women's team cost £10m."

I did specifically comment on it as an image and perception thing, not necessarily as a sporting excellence thing. In that respect, football does not really need to do this, because it is not starting from a position where it is generally perceived to be a sport for public school racists, or at best, a sport for old white men. It is starting from a position of being the sport of the people that everyone wants to play anyway. Despite that, football obviously perceives PR advantages in doing what it is doing (the comments of one notoriously reactionary old white man notwithstanding). But it doesn’t need to. It attracts a decent and varied audience including people young enough not to remember the Cold War. As much as I love it, county cricket is one of only two places, the other being the doctors’ surgery, where I can go along and actually feel young these days. The reason is simple in each case. Most of the people there are even more soon to be dead than I am. We can’t afford to live into the stereotype yet again.

 

[brandon]

how much of it have you actually watched, i found the womens games are actually a closer battle between bat and ball than the mens, a few more "proper" shots as some cant clear the rope (but Plenty still do)

Enough, but ‘a close battle’ doesn’t equate to quality. There are plenty close battles every week in the local leagues, but it doesn’t mean high quality cricket.

Not sure your point about the attendance is right either, 10k at the oval the other day and 11 and half on sunday at OT on for the womens games, i do get that its more people who are going to the mens game coming in earlier, but that suggests that it is taking off somewhat

My point is about financial sustainability - how many of those were ‘paying customers’?

Contrast the men’s and women’s national team attendances for a closer look at how sustainable women’s cricket is.

 

[Fleagle]

how much of it have you actually watched, i found the womens games are actually a closer battle between bat and ball than the mens, a few more "proper" shots as some cant clear the rope (but Plenty still do)

I’m minded to agree with this in one sense, and in this respect it reminds me a lot of tennis. Objectively speaking, there is no doubt that the tennis played by the men is better in the sense that Djokovic would surely blow Swiatek away in a singles match. But the later stages of women’s tournament can be more subtle, more nuanced, and more like the game of old as a result. Similar can be said of women’s white ball. I will regrettably now proceeded to shoot my own argument down by saying that I don’t really watch either much despite that.

 

[Sillypoint]

My point is about financial sustainability - how many of those were ‘paying customers’?

they will have been paying customers in the hundred games,

last year all the ODI's vs australia sold out, granted at smaller grounds bar the ageas bowl, 3 T20's at Edgebaston the Oval and Lords at nearly 20,000 per game, its moving in the right direction to be sustainable

I’m minded to agree with this in one sense, and in this respect it reminds me a lot of tennis. Objectively speaking, there is no doubt that the tennis played by the men is better in the sense that Djokovic would surely blow Swiatek away in a singles match. But the later stages of women’s tournament can be more subtle, more nuanced, and more like the game of old as a result. Similar can be said of women’s white ball. I will regrettably now proceeded to shoot my own argument down by saying that I don’t really watch either much despite that.

in the last few years the standard of womens cricket has moved on massively, certainly in the field, and the hitting too, watched a game last year at headingly where the boundaries were moved in so far it was borderline embarrasing and i think the girls felt that too, so Diandra Dottin and Laura Wolvarrt were hitting it into the stands

 

[brandon]

(the comments of one notoriously reactionary old white man notwithstanding).

He’s one of the richest men in the country and part owns the biggest football club in the world - play the ball, not the man, do you think he was lying?

I can very much believe those numbers and I see no reason why he would not be telling the truth.

last year all the ODI's vs australia sold out, granted at smaller grounds bar the ageas bowl, 3 T20's at Edgebaston the Oval and Lords at nearly 20,000 per game, its moving in the right direction to be sustainable

That’s kind of the point.

 

[Sillypoint]

That’s kind of the point.

2 Grounds out of 6 isnt making a point, im not sure how you cant see that it is growing

 

[brandon]

2 Grounds out of 6 isnt making a point, im not sure how you cant see that it is growing

It is making the point, because my point (which I’m now having to repeat for the third time) was always about sustainability, fuckall to do with ‘growing’.

If it can’t stand alone on its own without handouts from the men’s game, which is what makes the money, then serious questions need to be asked about its future.

 

[Sillypoint]

If it can’t stand alone on its own without handouts from the men’s game, which is what makes the money, then serious questions need to be asked about its future.

You could argue the same about the county championship

Yes it is subsided by the England men’s game, but it has everything to do with growing if it’s to be sustainable

 

[brandon]

You could argue the same about the county championship

You couldn’t, because the County Championship is the breeding ground for the most lucrative aspect of English cricket - the Test team.

You can’t say the same about any form of women’s cricket.

 

[Sillypoint]

You couldn’t, because the County Championship is the breeding ground for the most lucrative aspect of English cricket - the Test team.

but the CC doesnt survive at all without the test team, test Cricket in this country would survive without the CC, especially how its played now, theyll just pick young exciting players who are excelling in whatever format they are playing and coach them to play longer

You can’t say the same about any form of women’s cricket.

But from your comments its like your not even willing to give it a chance to sustain itself now, if it makes no money get rid?.... the CC and the metro bank would go with that logic

the idea is to to keep filling the stadiums, get them their own tv deal for both domestic and international, but it needs investment to get that far,

but because you dont like it or feel its not good enough in your opinion then just sack it all off, ok ill go tell my daughter she might as well give up on her dream to play professionally, go tell the England to what? Get back in the kitchen

 

[brandon]

but the CC doesnt survive at all without the test team, test Cricket in this country would survive without the CC, especially how its played now, theyll just pick young exciting players who are excelling in whatever format they are playing and coach them to play longer

It wouldn’t, as much as you’d like it to so you can win your argument. The County Championship is the envy of the entire Test playing world. The two go hand in hand. They need each other.

But from your comments its like your not even willing to give it a chance to sustain itself now, if it makes no money get rid?.... the CC and the metro bank would go with that logic

the idea is to to keep filling the stadiums, get them their own tv deal for both domestic and international, but it needs investment to get that far,

but because you dont like it or feel its not good enough in your opinion then just sack it all off, ok ill go tell my daughter she might as well give up on her dream to play professionally, go tell the England to what? Get back in the kitchen

Nah, you’re way off the mark. I’m not surprised it’s come to this though, I knew we wouldn’t be too far away from the ‘m’ word.

I never once said ‘get rid’, if you’re just going to make things up there’s no point engaging further. BUT, since you’ve completely misunderstood everything I’ve said anyway, it’s probably for the best.

“But from your comments its like your not even willing to give it a chance to sustain itself now”

That’s LITERALLY my point. It MUST be able to sustain itself, not piggy back off the success of other entities.

 

[Sillypoint]

It wouldn’t, as much as you’d like it to so you can win your argument. The County Championship is the envy of the entire Test playing world. The two go hand in hand. They need each other.

Is it really, India and Australia do ok, cant see many copying an 18 team format where a chunk of those 18 are struggling to stay in business and wouldnt be in business without the mens test team,

They dont need to go hand in hand, if the CC didnt exist and sky still wanted 5 test matches, they' d get them

That’s LITERALLY my point. It MUST be able to sustain itself, not piggy back off the success of other entities.

So mens domestic cricket needs to go then? cos bar 7 T20's at every ground its on its arse

The fact is, it’s not a great spectacle is it?

Its alright to not like something, but just dont state opinions as fact

you only need to look at the attendances to see it hasn’t taken off in the way the women hoped it would.

Again, totally wrong, they are up, and that tournament you hate so much has actually increased the Attendances of the England womens games, playing in bigger venues and selling them out since it started.

it may currently be taking from the ECB's pot, but at least its trying to put it back

 

[brandon]

Is it really, India and Australia do ok, cant see many copying an 18 team format where a chunk of those 18 are struggling to stay in business and wouldnt be in business without the mens test team,

Yes it is, just look at the Test players from all over the world who come and play in it. You don’t get that with other domestic red ball competitions.

They dont need to go hand in hand, if the CC didnt exist and sky still wanted 5 test matches, they' d get them

Where would the players come from? How would they hone their skills? You’re talking utter dogshit.

So mens domestic cricket needs to go then? cos bar 7 T20's at every ground its on its arse

More dogshit.

Its alright to not like something, but just dont state opinions as fact

You talking to yourself here?

 

[Sillypoint]

Yes it is, just look at the Test players from all over the world who come and play in it. You don’t get that with other domestic red ball competitions.

Because our best players are playing test cricket abroad, or playing franchise cricket, those who aren’t simply aren’t good enough to be playing in Indian and Australian domestic cricket

Where would the players come from? How would they hone their skills?

From those playing short format with their county and being trained,

maybe a lions squad, oh but hang on that’s self sufficient is it so that will have to go,

So just to get the misogyny correct, county cricket and other formats of men’s cricket can be subsidised by the ECB but just not the women

 

[brandon]

Because our best players are playing test cricket abroad, or playing franchise cricket, those who aren’t simply aren’t good enough to be playing in Indian and Australian domestic cricket

Mate, seriously, stop it.

Because our best players are playing test cricket abroad, or playing franchise cricket, those who aren’t simply aren’t good enough to be playing in Indian and Australian domestic cricket

From those playing short format with their county and being trained,

maybe a lions squad, oh but hang on that’s self sufficient is it so that will have to go,

So just to get the misogyny correct, county cricket and other formats of men’s cricket can be subsidised by the ECB but just not the women

So just to get the misogyny correct

THERE WE HAVE IT

 

[GordonMuchallNo1Fan]

Yes. I like sport and I am not a mysogynist.

I thought your cousin plays for England at football and is one of the best female players on the planet?

She is. Point remains hardly anyone is interested in it, likewise womens cricket in this country

It's nothing to do with "mysogynist" the crowds they get at womens cricket speaks for itself.

 

[Sillypoint]

Attendance records broken in 7 out of the 8 grounds this year for the women’s hundred

Moving in the right direction

I’d like to see some double headers next season at Durham, think that set up has been the difference in the hundred compared to other tournaments does feel like they are one squad