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The ref (see PGMOL thread)

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Sacking refs or demoting them for being incompetent is fair though like any other job.

What annoys me is that referees are not allowed to be criticised. Everytime they make a mistake here you are.

You come across as arrogant and like you are better than every one else. It’s hard for you to see anyone’s opinion.

You are making out like cricketers don’t cheat plenty do I watch both sports I also played both sports.

Just maybe If you respect other peoples point of view you might have better discussions on here.
I respect some comments are argue and debate accordingly, however some are ridiculous like sacking refs after a few bad ratings!

I agree mate like any other job refs should be demoted accordingly, but only when it’s looking at all performances in all games over a fair period.

And assessing good games against bad games

Surely you must agree refs performances should be assessed both good and bad and not sacked for a few bad ratings!
 

Trying to con the ref is part of the game (and FWIW Ballard should have stayed down writhing in agony holding his face after Coburn caught him, rather than jumping up and getting in his face). That’s why they’re there

If all players were honest and admitted every time they made a foul, didn’t try to claim a foul that wasn’t etc - then you wouldn’t need a ref. The players would just ref it amongst them
I grew up and played most of my football in the 70's and early 80's.

You didn't go down and pretend to be hurt back then. It was a sign of weakness.

But we still tried to con the ref. Niggles off the ball when the refs back was turned.
Getting the ball first, but making sure you cleaned the man out at the same time. Claiming throws that you knew were wrong, corners etc.

Is it cheating, or is it just part of the game and trying to get an advantage.

Even back then, we weren't "honest", and tried to get an edge.

I think the difference now is that when we got caught, you just held your hands up. Tough, I got caught this time.
 
Trying to con the ref is part of the game (and FWIW Ballard should have stayed down writhing in agony holding his face after Coburn caught him, rather than jumping up and getting in his face). That’s why they’re there

If all players were honest and admitted every time they made a foul, didn’t try to claim a foul that wasn’t etc - then you wouldn’t need a ref. The players would just ref it amongst them
See what I can say.

Surely if you are saying it’s ok to con a ref, you have to understand refs making mistakes?

And if players are good at conning a ref, it’s going to make it more difficult to get things right.

Therefore if people are saying it’s a players job to con the ref, they have to have sympathy with refs?
 
I respect some comments are argue and debate accordingly, however some are ridiculous like sacking refs after a few bad ratings!

I agree mate like any other job refs should be demoted accordingly, but only when it’s looking at all performances in all games over a fair period.

And assessing good games against bad games

Surely you must agree refs performances should be assessed both good and bad and not sacked for a few bad ratings!
I agree referees should be yeah of course, I get it can be difficult but they shouldn’t be allowed to get away with mistakes constantly.

something needs doing about the constant issues managers and players constantly pissed off. Not all players are dishonest much to what you think.

No excuse to make major mistakes in the premier league Brighton have just been robbed of a penalty which VAR should have been used and at least looked at.
 
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How can it be applied consistently?
We all know the answer to that, but it will never happen.
Book people when they do it.
Trouble is, players will keep doing it and refs will be told to back off, otherwise games would have to be abandoned because they would end up with less than 7 players on the field for each team.

But you must agree, gobbing off and abusing refs has to be stopped.
 
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It's not a ridiculous rule. It is needed.

But you are right, it is inconsistently applied. That's the issue.
I think it’s “ridiculous” is when you look at swearing at the ref - or a borderline yellow/red foul when someone can be injured and out for month - or potentially career ending. It’s hardly the same offence.
 
See what I can say.

Surely if you are saying it’s ok to con a ref, you have to understand refs making mistakes?

And if players are good at conning a ref, it’s going to make it more difficult to get things right.

Therefore if people are saying it’s a players job to con the ref, they have to have sympathy with refs?
Never mind referees making honest mistakes, will Jarred Gillet give every player that swears at him a yellow card.
This does not fall into the he only gets one view in real time bracket it’s a conscious decision to give a card for swearing, by those standards he should be issuing a card every time.
 
See what I can say.

Surely if you are saying it’s ok to con a ref, you have to understand refs making mistakes?

And if players are good at conning a ref, it’s going to make it more difficult to get things right.

Therefore if people are saying it’s a players job to con the ref, they have to have sympathy with refs?
That has nothing to do with the Neil decision which was straight up bias
 
The refereeing of games needs to be arbitrary unless you want football being administered by really stupid binary rules. The 'inconsistency' feature that gets constantly trotted out is incredibly misguided.

How on earth can you begin to come up with a sensible ruling on dissent that satisfies fans weird misunderstanding of the concept of consistency.


How can it be applied consistently?

To be fair, I do have a bit more sympathy with people asking for consistency when it comes to dissent, as I think it's more black and white than fouls, which are never really identical.

And you know my feelings on the term in general.
 
I agree referees should be yeah of course, I get it can be difficult but they shouldn’t be allowed to get away with mistakes constantly.

something needs doing about the constant issues managers and players constantly pissed off. Not all players are dishonest much to what you think.

No excuse to make major mistakes in the premier league Brighton have just been robbed of a penalty which VAR should have been used and at least looked at.


I agree mistakes by refs should not be allowed to go without accountability as long good games are taken into account alongside their bad games.

If a ref has consistently bad games over good games then he should be demoted that’s fair don’t you think?

VAR is a different kettle of fish for me as they have the chance of watching replays so have far less sympathy for them mistakes.

Managers and players and fans will always be pissed off mate, until them come to realise that in normal games without VAR, mistakes will always be made as it’s simply too hard for the human eye, to get as much decisions right as they want, evidence year after year proves that.

Managers and players after been involved in football for the length of time they have should have the common sense to realise sometimes you will get decisions for you, sometimes you won’t, it’s always and will always be the case.
That has nothing to do with the Neil decision which was straight up bias
So what reason would the ref have to be biased?
 
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To be fair, I do have a bit more sympathy with people asking for consistency when it comes to dissent, as I think it's more black and white than fouls, which are never really identical.

And you know my feelings on the term in general.

I do think you can have the same words come out of two players mouths though and depending on the delivery of them the ref could deal with it in totally different ways
 
I don't think it just comes down to swearing though. Dissent is measured on many more significant indicators than whether someone swore or not.
You make a good point, in just about every game you watch players gesticulate, show disapproval of a decision. Telling the ref he has missed a foul isn't dissent. If he is in the refs ear every few minutes, then that would be a different scenario, but then I would expect any half decent ref to warn such a player before issuing an official caution. As I said earlier this comedian was having a nightmare of a game, and just lost it.
 
I agree mistakes by refs should not be allowed to go without accountability as long good games are taken into account alongside their bad games.

If a ref has consistently bad games over good games then he should be demoted that’s fair don’t you think?

VAR is a different kettle of fish for me as they have the chance of watching replays so have far less sympathy for them mistakes.

Managers and players and fans will always be pissed off mate, until them come to realise that in normal games without VAR, mistakes will always be made as it’s simply too hard for the human eye, to get as much decisions right as they want, evidence year after year proves that.

Managers and players after been involved in football for the length of time they have should have the common sense to realise sometimes you will get decisions for you, sometimes you won’t, it’s always and will always be the case.
The word common sense you use I agree but referees should also use common sense.

It lacks both with the players at times and the referees at times.

The referees should be demoted when they have been constantly poor.

With VAR they should be independent as the worry of making decisions to help their mates is an issue. We should be able to hear VAR like we do with the third umpire in cricket.
 
That is a joke. Funny how it’s happening in live televised games innit? I’ve just counted and it was 8 seconds! Is that not around par?
The foul is a 36:54 and the ball is ready to be taken at 37:04 but Greenwood pisses about for 9 secs until 37:13 even looking to kick it but moving slighlty, which that clip conveniently cuts off. Greenwood dummies a kick and eventually kicks the ball at 37:22. Though she seems to speed up once the ref blows the 2nd time as I doubt she'd have taken it then either. Given it's BBC Sport tweeting it, they've done it in the hope of causing more discussion when in fact it's a correctly given 2nd yellow card as Greenwood was stupidly taking the piss given she was already on a yellow.
 
The word common sense you use I agree but referees should also use common sense.

It lacks both with the players at times and the referees at times.

The referees should be demoted when they have been constantly poor.

With VAR they should be independent as the worry of making decisions to help their mates is an issue. We should be able to hear VAR like we do with the third umpire in cricket.
The people who make decisions on refs have their every performance of every game so are in a far more informed position to decide on them than you or I don’t you think?

I am sure refs are are demoted and promoted accordingly.

Yeah would not disagree with VAR been more independent
 
Consistently is not possible when you dealing with different instances and people.

Consistently has never happened and never will it’s down to interpretation and is subjective always has been.

That’s one of the key problems with stupid handball situation and other stuff striving for the impossible.

Refs should just be allowed to ref the game how they see fit and mistakes they inevitably make treated the same way as the inevitable mistakes made by players.

Used to be that way up to a point, and there was nothing wrong with the game, until everyone concerned, pundits, fans, managers and the media did not accept them inevitable mistakes.

Now we have incredible ridiculous over the scrutiny where people look at ref games against a certain team in the past and put 2 and 2 together and make 7 that the ref has something against them which is complete nonsense, even occasions looking where a ref lives and saying he lives to close to one team so must be biased :D

What everybody needs to do from all angles imo ( but will not happen) is stop trying to make instances and fouls the same and compare, all fouls are different and seen differently by different people.

And stop asking for consistently because it’s f***ing impossible.

Refs should rightly get criticism when they have the luxury of VAR and still get it wrong.

However when they have one look, one angle and split seconds to make a decision in such a fast paced game, 99% of times their mistakes should be accepted and understood like they once were, sadly they not and why we have some of the ridiculous situations we have now on occasions.
Consistency between refs on different matches, fair enough. But this was inconsistency by one ref in one match, and that's inexcusable. Even worse, it seemed not to be even-handed
 
Give ower man.

I think you can tbh. If a player is standing calmly next to a ref and says 'come on, that's not a f***ing foul ref' is totally different to a player charging towards an official aggressively saying the same thing. I can totally see why a official would judge in the incidents separately

I'm not saying Neil charged towards the ref mind. I'm just using a random example
 
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