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Side for the 2nd test then?


MustardAndOnions said:
Btw first test showed how big of a miss leach is, he’d have bowled all game, and we’d have won comfortably in my view with the spin on offer

@Voice of fair play think people just take for granted how he’s easily the best spinner in the country

And we are scrambling round with a bloke who has not played for 2 years and an 18 year old who has took 6 wickets in division 2

I’d actually argue he’s the 1 bowler we couldn’t afford to get injured
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I think it’s hard to judge correctly how effective our spinner in the match would have been as Moeen was clearly struggling with his hand.

Who knows especially in the second innings how more effective he could have been was he not struggling with that finger.

Also don’t think it’s ever been disputed even by me that Leach is the best spinner in the country.

But there is a world of difference between that and been a quality international bowler.
 
Voice of fair play said:
I think it’s hard to judge correctly how effective our spinner in the match would have been as Moeen was clearly struggling with his hand.

Who knows especially in the second innings how more effective he could have been was he not struggling with that finger.

Also don’t think it’s ever been disputed even by me that Leach is the best spinner in the country.

But there is a world of difference between that and been a quality international bowler.
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He’s proven that’s he a good international bowler. Fact we are calling up an 18 year old with 6 wickets shows how much he’s missed. The fact Mo got injured only backs up my point of how much he’s missed. Wasn’t an unlucky injury like.
 
MustardAndOnions said:
He’s proven that’s he a good international bowler. Fact we are calling up an 18 year old with 6 wickets shows how much he’s missed. The fact Mo got injured only backs up my point of how much he’s missed. Wasn’t an unlucky injury like.
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Well yeah I guess if you have a country like we do who have very little quality spinners available as back up.

Then you number one spinner will always be a miss.
 
Leach has done an ok job as a holding bowler but his average is actually worse under Stokes & McCullum at almost 40 a wicket.

The seamers have done the heavy lifting if we produce pitches like the first most of our bowlers are going to be nullified.

As long as we continue to play 8 championship matches in April and September when a 70mph bowler can pitch on leg stump and hit the top of off stump not going to produce spinners.

Most English captains are poor with spinners also as our ball does so much more it rewards accuracy so pace is down.

You simply could not make a career in Australia or South Africa as a 75/80 seam or swing bowler as the ball does not do enough.

I see this lords pitch being it’s usual flat surface.
 
Durham-Mackem41 said:
Leach has done an ok job as a holding bowler but his average is actually worse under Stokes & McCullum at almost 40 a wicket.

The seamers have done the heavy lifting if we produce pitches like the first most of our bowlers are going to be nullified.

As long as we continue to play 8 championship matches in April and September when a 70mph bowler can pitch on leg stump and hit the top of off stump not going to produce spinners.

Most English captains are poor with spinners also as our ball does so much more it rewards accuracy so pace is down.

You simply could not make a career in Australia or South Africa as a 75/80 seam or swing bowler as the ball does not do enough.

I see this lords pitch being it’s usual flat surface.
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Ignore his average like, why do people just look at stats on a bit of paper? Look at why its gone up, he is doing exactly what Stokes wants from him.

Stokes has mid on and off up at all times, sometimes he has nobody fielding in that whole area, so its literally just 4 if you get it over the bowler. they idea is to let them hit the bowler for a few 6s before getting them eventually

obviously the average would go up, would for Lyon or spin bowler in the world

annoys me when people dont even question why thats his average. he could have men all on the boundary and his average would go back to what it is under Root, but that would not win England games.

Stokes is a huge miss, most wickets in the world over 12 monts and bowled 200 more overs than any bowler under Stokes, when we won 11 in 13. how about just give him some credit?
 
I just don’t think Leach is a very good spinner he does not turn the ball enough struggles with variations of pace and constantly undercuts the ball.

I think Lyon is an excellent spinner you can’t compare him to leach. He really gives it a rip and bowls with huge overspin bounce being as key to him as turn.

I have loved cricket since I first went when I was 7 so just over 35 years of watching. We just struggle to produce spinners and true pace bowlers Swann is the only top class spinner we have produced in that. Same with top class pace a handful.

We produce good swing and seam
Bowlers who are then nullified on away pitches which are flatter with SG or Kookabura.

Leach is the best at the moment unless Ahmed kicks on but it’s not saying much when the other options are Bess, then Dawson and Jacks who are basically batsman who bowl spin. I would not even say he was as good as Monty.
 
Durham-Mackem41 said:
I just don’t think Leach is a very good spinner he does not turn the ball enough struggles with variations of pace and constantly undercuts the ball.

I think Lyon is an excellent spinner you can’t compare him to leach. He really gives it a rip and bowls with huge overspin bounce being as key to him as turn.

I have loved cricket since I first went when I was 7 so just over 35 years of watching. We just struggle to produce spinners and true pace bowlers Swann is the only top class spinner we have produced in that. Same with top class pace a handful.

We produce good swing and seam
Bowlers who are then nullified on away pitches which are flatter with SG or Kookabura.

Leach is the best at the moment unless Ahmed kicks on but it’s not saying much when the other options are Bess, then Dawson and Jacks who are basically batsman who bowl spin. I would not even say he was as good as Monty.
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fair enough marra, I agree with your overall point, just think people in general are harsh on Leach, his record is decent, think his averae under Stokes needs context, as part of his remit is going to go for runs. I was making the point that Lyon would go for runs under Stokes too.
 
Crawley
Duckett
Pope
Root
Brook
Stokes (c)
Bairstow (wk)
Woakes
Broad
Potts
Wood
 
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