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New Stadium Measures

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Doeboy said:
People complaining but enhanced searches for pyros etc and increased stewarding and training is what 99% of clubs would do as a first easy to implement measure. If people are able to throw stuff then clearly there either aren’t enough stewards or they aren’t properly trained.

Think people going on as if the stand is the Gaza Strip need to calm down a tiny bit and acknowledge that while it isn’t acceptable, scum bag opposition fans are more an issue than the club here.

See how the changes work before kicking off in the internet seems like a fairly reasonable course of action.
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Is this the first time it has happened, like?
 

samaistonsrightfoot said:
Because if its the first thing anything a club will do we did it three years ago?
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Few isolated incidents but generally the aim is to find and prosecute criminal behaviour rather than somehow surround away fans in Perspex. Consider that any view restricting device would impact every normal visitor to the stadium, never mind the structural implications of a huge and likely extremely heavy net on a stand absolutely not designed with that in mind.
 
Guinness Guzzler said:
I'll be very interested to see what happens in terms of the north stand (especially as I sit there with my 8 year old!). The impression I get from someone who attended the meeting was the the club are very much taking it seriously and that further measures are likely to be introduced. There was also an understanding that there was a time element to this and that it couldn't drag on and on. Obviously nothing above and beyond the measures in this article are going to be in place for QPR, but I'll ask RAWA if there's any progress shortly afterwards. It's all well and good looking at upcoming fixtures and thinking they are fairly low risk until Millwall, but as morecambe showed it doesn't need to be a high risk game to have an idiot or a few idiots throwing stuff that could seriously hurt a supporter in the north stand. Hopefully these initial measures will help but whether stewards at the back will really see much in a standing crowd I'm not convinced, and I don't think stewards are much of a deterrent either. But as I say, the impression is that the club are taking it seriously so fingers crossed there'll be further announcements sooner rather than later
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Same here as if we weren't on holiday for Coventry game my daughter would've been hit by a glass bottle.
 
forever changes said:
Seems South Stand is more a concern to them. Their own supporters rather than away ones the problem
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Apart from the bit where it very very very clearly says “the SGSA has now formally written to the Club to state that this has been classed a top priority and action must be taken to address the concerns outlined above” and hence not the club
Useful_Idiot said:
How the fuck is fans moving around the ground a bigger problem than missles being launched from a good height by away fans.
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That’s literally not what’s being said on any level. For starters, one is a more regular occurrence than the other and has been highlighted by the SGSA as in need of action. Aka it’s a big risk of an accident. Can guarantee if a bad accident happened you’d be complaining that nothing had been done about it, so we’re taking action. Secondly, as for the North Stand issue, what can we feasibly do in two weeks, other than what’s being done.
 
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Doeboy said:
Few isolated incidents but generally the aim is to find and prosecute criminal behaviour rather than somehow surround away fans in Perspex. Consider that any view restricting device would impact every normal visitor to the stadium, never mind the structural implications of a huge and likely extremely heavy net on a stand absolutely not designed with that in mind.
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Generally the aim is not “to find and prosecute criminal behaviour”

But to take all reasonable measures to ensure the safety of fans in the ground - for which the club itself has legal responsibility AND club officials should note, they also have personal responsibility - and could be individually prosecuted if they cock this up
 
Other than coventry, how often has this happened before?

Both us and the Mags have had away fans up the top for a good while. If it was that much of an issue, surely they would have moved them on H&S grounds.
 
Doeboy said:
Few isolated incidents but generally the aim is to find and prosecute criminal behaviour rather than somehow surround away fans in Perspex. Consider that any view restricting device would impact every normal visitor to the stadium, never mind the structural implications of a huge and likely extremely heavy net on a stand absolutely not designed with that in mind.
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99% of clubs would implement these measures immediately yet:

What we know:

- Head safety officer has confirmed to me personally he carried out risk, research and planning for a net (not perspex) and the club declined - Backed up by RAWA minutes.

- Club head of saftey has confirmed to me personally pyro dogs don't work so we now have more dogs that don't work

- incidents has been happening for 3 years. Did we implement new measures then? If so, they haven't worked.

- if these 'new measures and training' is so flawless it seems a bit odd to wait years to bother with them.

- Club won't spend money on ticket office or club shop wages so safety measures that cost money aren't worth the collateral damage


FWIW my 9 year old was born blind in one eye and you want me to wait and see if a broken bottle blinds him completely before I decide if these measures (despite numerous incidents prior with 100% failure to combat) will work.

Class.
 
samaistonsrightfoot said:
It's not really tbh in a big crowd. And people who do it are generally pissed and and don't think about it.

Fwiw i don't even think Coventry fans were deliberately trying to maim people (although they were at their place a few year ago) but pissed and in heat off moment they do something f***ing stupid without any thought and that's all it takes.


I'm not saying there was no police at all. Just not in that tunnel where they normally are.
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Yes in the heat of the moment they go into their pocket and take out a flare and throw it. The one that they had no intention of using when they entered the ground.
 
samaistonsrightfoot said:
99% of clubs would implement these measures immediately yet:

What we know:

- Head safety officer has confirmed to me personally he carried out risk, research and planning for a net (not perspex) and the club declined - Backed up by RAWA minutes.

- Club head of saftey has confirmed to me personally pyro dogs don't work so we now have more dogs that don't work

- incidents has been happening for 3 years. Did we implement new measures then? If so, they haven't worked.

- if these 'new measures and training' is so flawless it seems a bit odd to wait years to bother with them.

- Club won't spend money on ticket office or club shop wages so safety measures that cost money aren't worth the collateral damage


FWIW my 9 year old was born blind in one eye and you want me to wait and see if a broken bottle blinds him completely before I decide if these measures (despite numerous incidents prior with 100% failure to combat) will work.

Class.
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Defenders of the club claim south stand far worse and that’s what needs to be sorted.
Bet there’s more bother in the south stand on Saturday as a result. I guess the stewards will deal with more Sunderland supporters than they did Coventry
 
dred73 said:
Yes in the heat of the moment they go into their pocket and take out a flare and throw it. The one that they had no intention of using when they entered the ground.
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People throwing them in more down to being prosecuted if they are caught with them tbh. Light and hoy is the best way of doing it without recourse opposed to just holding till they burn out.

I was talking more in the case of glass bottles anyway tbh which is way more of an issue to smoke bombs.
forever changes said:
Defenders of the club claim south stand far worse and that’s what needs to be sorted.
Bet there’s more bother in the south stand on Saturday as a result. I guess the stewards will deal with more Sunderland supporters than they did Coventry
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The stance of 'just wait and see if someone gets blinded' is bewildering tbh.
 
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HoxtonMackem said:
As someone who has elsewhere on here been massively critical of the way the ticket office and club shop has been ran of late, I honestly don't believe there is much more they could have done in less than 2 weeks in regards to the measures they have taken with regards to the north and south stands.

- South Stand; simple way to stop overcrowding, you only can gain access with a ticket for a seat there....it surely will solve the issue IF they have actually sealed off walkways and turnstiles there only accept tickets for seats in south stand blocks....don't see why an issue?

- Away fans; as awful as the situation is I don't see what more they are supposed to do/or rather have done since the Cov game....installing a net will require lead in times for the contractor(s) to order, deliver and install it (we are talking a net to take into account the entire width of the stand and which will have to be installed via many fixing points which will have to be carefully considered and installed), not to mention health and safety inspections to be passed by whichever body is responsible for signing off safety changes to sports stadia. People think the whole process can be done in a day but trust me from someone who has worked in construction, procurement and project management for years, it can't. If it was done in a few days I'd question it tbf.

Having said that, putting the away fans up there years ago WAS a mistake. However, I believe the issues will get sorted, they'll just take a bit longer than many are expecting.


*Tin hat welded on
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Wouldn’t expect a change but they could have announced they are enacting the net thing now and will be looking to implement it asap. We aren’t stupid and realise it can’t be done overnight, but if the process was at least started then at least we know somethings happening. Could of course replace net with Perspex screen or automated tasers hanging from the roof or whatever else
samaistonsrightfoot said:
People throwing them in more down to being prosecuted if they are caught with them tbh. Light and hoy is the best way of doing it without recourse opposed to just holding till they burn out.

I was talking more in the case of glass bottles anyway tbh which is way more of an issue to smoke bombs.


The stance of 'just wait and see if someone gets blinded' is bewildering tbh.
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I think a smoke bomb will do a lot of damage to someone’s head from that height, much like a glass bottle. Don’t really fancy being hit with either tbh, and especially don’t want my 9 year old kid being hit with one
 
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TravellingMackem said:
Wouldn’t expect a change but they could have announced they are enacting the net thing now and will be looking to implement it asap. We aren’t stupid and realise it can’t be done overnight, but if the process was at least started then at least we know somethings happening. Could of course replace net with Perspex screen or automated tasers hanging from the roof or whatever else

I think a smoke bomb will do a lot of damage to someone’s head from that height, much like a glass bottle. Don’t really fancy being hit with either tbh, and especially don’t want my 9 year old kid being hit with one
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I'm not disagreeing with that tbh but glassing people and the results of a bottle bursting and rebound shards of it in to faces etc is worse imo.

At the minute throwimg pyro (to avoid being caught with it) is almost incentivised.
Tony_in_London said:
Generally the aim is not “to find and prosecute criminal behaviour”

But to take all reasonable measures to ensure the safety of fans in the ground - for which the club itself has legal responsibility AND club officials should note, they also have personal responsibility - and could be individually prosecuted if they cock this up
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After the club saftey officer has confirmed to me that their measures aren't adequate I won't hesitate to sue the club if the worst was to happen. Tbh i'll be going straight for the talking heads for negligence.

I'm staying well away from my seat for the meantime so it (selfishly) doesn't put me in that position.
 
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Tony_in_London said:
Generally the aim is not “to find and prosecute criminal behaviour”

But to take all reasonable measures to ensure the safety of fans in the ground - for which the club itself has legal responsibility AND club officials should note, they also have personal responsibility - and could be individually prosecuted if they cock this up
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Has anyone actually ever been injured by any of this behaviour.

Our tickets are in the Roker End but the family enclosure part of it towards the SEC. Still captured by these measures though so it's gonna be a pain in the arse by the sounds of it.
 
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