2nd test v N.Zealand 10-14 June

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TravellingMackem said:
Our best chance of winning was hitting 150 6s off the next 30 overs, then having best part of 2 days to bowl them out for what should be an unassailable lead really. But yes definitely our best chance of winning could only be getting bowled out for less than they made first innings. What a muppet 😂😂😂😂
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The bottom line mate is:

In two conversations with me at the time you said:

1. It would be better to learn and settle for draw.

2. You also said to me how on earth do you expect anyone to win from here and then mocked me and laughed at me when I mentioned a very similar match in the 2006 Ashes as a example of how England could win.

That match the team batting fourth won the game.

At the very least you could admit your were wrong saying a win was not possible as that is exactly what happened.
 
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Haven't see a ball bowled today as working but followed it on the BBC website and heard the winning runs when driving home. Sensational result, just read back on this thread from earlier on and it illustrated the turnaround, in space of very few posts it went from certain defeat to this could be doable to wtf was that 😎. Class
 
TravellingMackem said:
No idea what your point is tbh. My point wasn’t that England would or wouldn’t win the game, it was about the statistically most likely chance of winning, which you incorrectly stated. Just because the outcome of a one off event favoured what you said, doesn’t make your statement true. You are derailing a good discussion though so I’m out.
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We were talking about the game from a specific point in time when we were 5 down in our second innings. At that time I stated as did VOFP and Carty that England has a realistic chance of winning the game if they were bowled out for more or less parity giving them a chance to bowl them out cheaply in the 3rd innings and knock them off. Nothing outlandish about that but you just couldn't get your head around it. Your statement about winning tests in general about bowling a team out on the final day is quite reasonable and correct but it wasn't realistic for England to win this test match in that way. If you are being honest you simply couldn't see, appreciate or understand what others were suggesting.
 
NorthCountryBoy said:
I don’t think Leach is as good as Lyon, but I still think that the numbers demonstrate that JL isn’t as weak as people say.

Rashid also has the benefit of having played many of his tests on ‘two spinner’ pitches and his numbers are still crap. He’s never looked threatening at test level.
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Rashid had hardly any control when he last played tests for England. I just don’t think Leach ever looks dangerous. Opposition sides clearly target him as well.
 
KGC83 said:
Rashid had hardly any control when he last played tests for England. I just don’t think Leach ever looks dangerous. Opposition sides clearly target him as well.
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They do mate.

Just my opinion but think Leach’s averages flatters him.

He doesn’t look dangerous in the slightest and not only are teams not worried about him, they actually see him as the weakest link in our bowling attack and like you say look to target him.
 
Love Bairstow, looks like a fan who’s won a chance to play when he’s fielding, then goes in to utter destruction mode when needed with the bat.

Also think both Lees and Foakes have done well in positions that we’ve needed someone to come in and do well in.
 
rentaghost said:
We were talking about the game from a specific point in time when we were 5 down in our second innings. At that time I stated as did VOFP and Carty that England has a realistic chance of winning the game if they were bowled out for more or less parity giving them a chance to bowl them out cheaply in the 3rd innings and knock them off. Nothing outlandish about that but you just couldn't get your head around it. Your statement about winning tests in general about bowling a team out on the final day is quite reasonable and correct but it wasn't realistic for England to win this test match in that way. If you are being honest you simply couldn't see, appreciate or understand what others were suggesting.
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Except that’s not what you said is it? What you said was our BEST chance of winning was that. Which is not correct. Batting at a good tempo in the first innings but building a lead is a much better chance of winning. Especially given we could have been bowled out today and lost the game, something which would have been less likely had we batted longer in the first innings, provided the run rate was reasonable of course. Never underestimate day 5 pitches for making easyish chases difficult
Voice of fair play said:
The bottom line mate is:

In two conversations with me at the time you said:

1. It would be better to learn and settle for draw.

2. You also said to me how on earth do you expect anyone to win from here and then mocked me and laughed at me when I mentioned a very similar match in the 2006 Ashes as a example of how England could win.

That match the team batting fourth won the game.

At the very least you could admit your were wrong saying a win was not possible as that is exactly what happened.
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Not really sure what you are on about, since what you’ve quoted was completely unrelated. This post is absolutely unrelated to the discussion I was having with the other fella.
Voice of fair play said:
They do mate.

Just my opinion but think Leach’s averages flatters him.

He doesn’t look dangerous in the slightest and not only are teams not worried about him, they actually see him as the weakest link in our bowling attack and like you say look to target him.
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Pick a batter that can bowl some spin time for me really - ie Ali. None of our spinners are particularly threatening and we’ve had a relatively long tail recently, so might as well shore that up if we aren’t really losing anything anyway. Would like to see Root bowl more too, he’s quite awkward if nothing else
 
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