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The Pep myth


Definitely Maybe said:
You can say the last minute collapse would never have happened under Klopp,
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That's all I was saying. I didn't mention the league. I think they are both brilliant coaches and don't have a preference for any of them. I'd just back Klopp and Liverpool in a one-off game before Pep and City.

This tweet was posted earlier. If you didn't know anything about football and how good a coach Pep was you'd think he was a big game bottler.

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Pep is probably the best Plan A tactical coach of all time. His Plan B and reaction based tactical changes aren’t elite level.

Klopp is more of an old school manager - builds emotion into his teams and tactics and when it’s going well his players feed off that. When it’s not going well he chucks on striker after striker. Then Origi digs him out!

He may have been born with a silver spoon in his mush in the teams and talent , and yes money, but Pep has changed the face of European football.

He’s not the messiah he’s a very stubborn boy.
 
His teams are like robots. They dont have any heart. He's not like Ferguson or Clough or Paisley or even the likes of Klopp and Ancolotti. Or even a Mourinho, whose sides had a lot of steel about them. He'll militantly win you leagues with a billion pound budget every where he goes, but if a team has more spirit than him, they always go out. I mean they lost to Spurs for fucks sake. How do you get out bottled by Spurs?
 
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CherryHenry said:
That's all I was saying. I didn't mention the league. I think they are both brilliant coaches and don't have a preference for any of them. I'd just back Klopp and Liverpool in a one-off game before Pep and City.

This tweet was posted earlier. If you didn't know anything about football and how good a coach Pep was you'd think he was a big game bottler.

You must be logged on to see media items
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Aye but I'm just saying he gets criticised every time they get beat when others don't. Klopp lost 3-1 to Madrid in the quarters last year but nobody said Liverpool bottled it. It makes no difference when the goals go in if the end result is the same.

I get the money argument, but at the same time Liverpool, Chelsea and Man United are hardly paupers, nor are PSG, Bayern, Madrid etc in Europe. In Fergie's time Man United comfortably outspent everyone by some distance except Blackburn and the Mags for a couple of years until Abramovic came along in 2003. Arsenal were their biggest rivals for a long time but there was a much bigger financial disparity than there is between City and Liverpool/Chelsea/United now.

I'm not going out my way to defend Pep or anything, just think it becomes like the Ronaldo vs Messi debate where there's nothing between them but people make up ridiculous arguments to put one down over the other (not saying you are but some of the things on this thread are ludicrous).
 
chunkylover53 said:
I’m sure I’ll get tons of abuse for this, so I’ll caveat in advance. He’s clearly a top coach. This is more a “is he as good as he thinks he is?” post

it’s now 10 years since he won the champions league. Despite having pretty much unlimited money at City and coaching Bayern, one of the biggest clubs on the planet

He got somewhat fortunate with Barca as he inherited arguably the best player ever in his prime

look at his City numbers. He’s been great domestically. But he should be when you look at what he’s bought. The transfer fees are from memory, so tell me I’m wrong

Ederson £35m (one of the highest fees ever at the time)
Walker £50m
Mendy £50m (even without the news he’s been crap)
Cancelo £40m+
Dias, Stones, Ake, Laporte at a combined £220m ish
Rodri £60m
De Bruyne £57m
Silva £35m
Jesus £27m
Mahrez £60m
Grealish £100m
Torres £25m

there will be more. Probably only one looks a shocker, but given the money surely he has to win more?

who has he sold at a profit? Sane?

who has he developed? Foden?

I’ll get pelters, but 10 years since a CL. With that money. He’s not the genius he thinks he is?
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His team selection for the final Vs Chelsea last year was ludicrous.

However the Barca side he had where oppo cudnt get the ball, was awesome.

Maybe not as great as he thinks he is (he cudnt emulate Hitzfelt at Bayern the prime example), but still a top coach.
 
Fetch Fletch said:
His coaching is absolutely brilliant.
His match day tactics…on big occasions…I used the words over-managed yesterday, and I still think it now.
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It doesn't sound like he did a lot wrong last night in terms of personnel.
UpTheDuff said:
He’s a charlatan. If Speakman dines out on Bellingham then Pep dines out on Messi and the Barca team which fell into his lap.

He failed at Munich, embarrassing their Champions League legacy, and is finding buying a Champions League trophy at City is hard without Messi or a cheating Busquets.

Pretty much any top flight manager could have won the trophies he did at Bayern in a one-team league or at City due to the resources available.


His hypocrisy at Barca moaning his players needed ‘protection’ when his team committed so many fouls and unpunished fouls probably turned the gods against him for life.

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Have you read Pep Confidential?
 
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Definitely Maybe said:
Aye but I'm just saying he gets criticised every time they get beat when others don't. Klopp lost 3-1 to Madrid in the quarters last year but nobody said Liverpool bottled it. It makes no difference when the goals go in if the end result is the same.

I get the money argument, but at the same time Liverpool, Chelsea and Man United are hardly paupers, nor are PSG, Bayern, Madrid etc in Europe. In Fergie's time Man United comfortably outspent everyone by some distance except Blackburn and the Mags for a couple of years until Abramovic came along in 2003. Arsenal were their biggest rivals for a long time but there was a much bigger financial disparity than there is between City and Liverpool/Chelsea/United now.

I'm not going out my way to defend Pep or anything, just think it becomes like the Ronaldo vs Messi debate where there's nothing between them but people make up ridiculous arguments to put one down over the other (not saying you are but some of the things on this thread are ludicrous).
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You should have seen this place a few years ago with regards Klopp.
UpTheDuff said:
I’ll pass. Not sure what being American or not has to do with it.
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Surprise surprise.
 
chunkylover53 said:
I’m sure I’ll get tons of abuse for this, so I’ll caveat in advance. He’s clearly a top coach. This is more a “is he as good as he thinks he is?” post

it’s now 10 years since he won the champions league. Despite having pretty much unlimited money at City and coaching Bayern, one of the biggest clubs on the planet

He got somewhat fortunate with Barca as he inherited arguably the best player ever in his prime

look at his City numbers. He’s been great domestically. But he should be when you look at what he’s bought. The transfer fees are from memory, so tell me I’m wrong

Ederson £35m (one of the highest fees ever at the time)
Walker £50m
Mendy £50m (even without the news he’s been crap)
Cancelo £40m+
Dias, Stones, Ake, Laporte at a combined £220m ish
Rodri £60m
De Bruyne £57m
Silva £35m
Jesus £27m
Mahrez £60m
Grealish £100m
Torres £25m

there will be more. Probably only one looks a shocker, but given the money surely he has to win more?

who has he sold at a profit? Sane?

who has he developed? Foden?

I’ll get pelters, but 10 years since a CL. With that money. He’s not the genius he thinks he is?
Click to expand...

I reckon Neil Warnock, Sam Allardyce and half of this board could have achieved what he has at Man City. At Barcelona and Bayern Munich, huge advantage. At Man City more of a test of moulding a team into the best around and he has failed. 'Some of his signings highly questionable. Jack Grealish, for example, is not one of the best players in Europe. 'Reminds me a bit of us but at a much higher level, bringing players in who really aren't what is needed to complete the team.

Klopp is on a different level and I'm not seeing why the Spaniard is so highly rated. He's been very fortunate to be in charge at clubs with an embarrassment of riches and the pick of the best players.
 
Locke's SAFC said:
I reckon Neil Warnock, Sam Allardyce and half of this board could have achieved what he has at Man City. At Barcelona and Bayern Munich, huge advantage. At Man City more of a test of moulding a team into the best around and he has failed. 'Some of his signings highly questionable. Jack Grealish, for example, is not one of the best players in Europe. 'Reminds me a bit of us but at a much higher level, bringing players in who really aren't what is needed to complete the team.

Klopp is on a different level and I'm not seeing why the Spaniard is so highly rated. He's been very fortunate to be in charge at clubs with an embarrassment of riches and the pick of the best players.
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You think Neil Warnock could've won the title with 100 points playing that style of football?
 
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