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Russia invading Ukraine (NEWS/UPDATES)

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Pancho said:
Yes, that was literally the whole point of my post.

I personally think Fiona Hill's analysis of Putin is too important to be lost in amongst a thread that we are trying to maintain as essentially a news source.

In addition it was not my link and I was simply affording @Bulwell the opportunity of starting a separate thread if he so wished.

In future before responding to my posts you might find it handy to engage your brain and actually read the links to understand the context of what I am saying.
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It's certainly an interesting topic but I won't be starting it. I have a Ukrainian wife and I'm too consumed in this war to worry about what I now consider relatively unimportant issues like Brexit, our government etc.

My wife even suggested we go and live in Kiev about 5 years ago and whilst I love the city I'm British and the UK is home. On another timeline that could be me getting armed and waking up every day knowing it may be the last time you get out of bed.

I know people in Kiev and no one we know has been injured yet but I hear horrible stories first hand everyday on people who are just like you and I.
 
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stretch said:
What would happen if Russia blew the nuclear station up?

Excuse my lack of knowledge?
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Other people will be able to explain it better than me but on a ultra basic level you would probably lose the ability to cool the Uranium rods and the reactor core causing an explosion like Chernobyl.

I think the Chernobyl accident was caused by testing for such a scenario which blew up only one reactor. You risk blowing them all up if you blew the whole station up.
 
MonkeyLove said:
But I don’t think it’s as clear cut as that. Why would there be WW3?

The West has already signalled to Putin what our red line is and it’s that we are terrified of a direct confrontation with Russia. We have had politicians, Stolenberg, leaders, all sorts coming out and falling over themselves making it quite clear we are horrified by the prospect. No no fly zone etc… because of the consequences.

That Fiona Hill article describes why he will be emboldened by that. NATO member or not we have given a clear message that the risks of that confrontation and the potential dire escalation it could create with nukes is too dangerous.

Neither of those change just because he goes into a bit of land called Estonia instead of Ukraine.

I don’t think he is scared of a conventional war with NATO because he quite likely never believes it will happen. He may well believe the message we have already sent will be repeated, the potential horrific consequences of an escalation by responding are too high.

So he may just call the West’s bluff and do it. We have seen through history that treaties, legal agreements etc… mean fuck all sometimes (They already have in Ukraine as this in itself has happened within 30 years of them being given to them)

She believes based on her understanding of his personality he will go further then Ukraine likely because he doesn’t think anyone will stop him when he is waving his nuke threat around, NATO or not.
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He will find out quickly that NATO will stick to the agreement then. I honestly believe all countries will come together. If it turns nuclear then it will be bad for Russia too.

Right now the west are playing the economic long game, knowing it will become unsustainable for him to expand. Mind, I do worry about the UK being the first target on any nuclear response. Militarily it makes sense and the nuclear fallout would have less environmental impact on Russia. They would not dare do it to USA. Blaming Liz Truss for the upping of their alert half confirms that idea. We need to stay strong regardless and not be bullied in to meek actions.
 
EDGE said:
It's so depressing.
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Some people are beyond help when their own family are telling them and showing them proof that they are wrong and they still believe propaganda, the same shit happens here too, obviously we aren't being invaded or invading but if we were the same thing would happen, it's scary.
 
Sweeper said:
The Eu states that, like the rest of the West, are refusing to actually help?
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No boots on the ground but weapons and supplies are being sent from member states. Germany for example are sending a load of AT rockets and stingers. With their reliance on Russian gas I doubt they want Ukraine sabotaging that.
UpTheDuff said:
Brainwashed Russians believing Putin’s propaganda ahead of their own children living in Ukraine:

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Fuck's sake
 
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Bob Fleming said:
No boots on the ground but weapons and supplies are being sent from member states. Germany for example are sending a load of AT rockets and stingers. With their reliance on Russian gas I doubt they want Ukraine sabotaging that.
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What would be interesting to know is how long will it take for Germany to remove that reliance? They have obviously shown their intention to do it, but are we talking years?
 
42 said:
When Putin is controlling the news thats being fed to Russians, would it make any difference?

The ones who don't get their info from state TV, don't believe Putin anyway.
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I honestly don’t have the answer.

My thinking is simply that the more ‘propaganda busting’ we do have, has got to be a good thing in terms of pushing the truth as further and wider as we can.
 
ravydavygravy said:
Anyone been on here? f***ing mad.

tass.com

I like this one:

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Or the on about retailers:

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Several of the world's largest retailers, including IKEA, Mango, H&M Group, suspended operating in Russia at the same time. This may result in major losses for the retail chains and the closing of 40-50% of stores for shopping centers. Proprietors will aspire to find new tenants among Russian, Chinese and Turkish retailers but this is unlikely to happen immediately.
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There was a great clip on Channel 4 news of Russian TV with an official of some sort saying it didn’t matter that Apple were not selling iPhones because people can buy “this great phone made here in Russia” before unboxing a phone live on air. It looked like something from North Korea or the comedy film Goodbye Lenin.
 
MorNando06660 said:
He will find out quickly that NATO will stick to the agreement then. I honestly believe all countries will come together. If it turns nuclear then it will be bad for Russia too.

Right now the west are playing the economic long game, knowing it will become unsustainable for him to expand. Mind, I do worry about the UK being the first target on any nuclear response. Militarily it makes sense and the nuclear fallout would have less environmental impact on Russia. They would not dare do it to USA. Blaming Liz Truss for the upping of their alert half confirms that idea. We need to stay strong regardless and not be bullied in to meek actions.
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Well we would find out. I’m not saying NATO would do nothing but find the idea that Putin could believe the full nature of article 5 wouldn’t be invoked for an incursion into an Estonia or Lithuania and that the collective response may just consist of essentially a Ukrainian defensive weapon supply on steroids realistic.

Nixon used the madman strategy to great effect with the Soviets. It worked by giving very limited or no contact with him directly and instead having his team brief the Soviets that he was unhinged and that they couldn’t control him.

I’d love to think the principles of NATO would apply but in the real World when the West is the adult in the room it would be very difficult if being briefed in back channels via specific threats for, let’s not put too finer point on it, the potential for a nuclear winter, that in reality the full NATO collective response doctrine wouldn’t be invoked

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What’s the Russian State narrative to its people as to why the stock market has disappeared, why they can’t access Twitter or Facebook or Netflix or the BBC, why they’re football teams are no longer competing in Europe or attempting to qualify for the World Cup, why they can’t watch the Premier League, why they suddenly can’t go on holiday or why they can’t buy cars or iPhones or Nike trainers etc etc etc?

Presumably it’s all the West’s fault but how is that being spun to them?
 
Howard the Duck said:
What’s the Russian State narrative to its people as to why the stock market has disappeared, why they can’t access Twitter or Facebook or Netflix or the BBC, why they’re football teams are no longer competing in Europe or attempting to qualify for the World Cup, why they can’t watch the Premier League, why they suddenly can’t go on holiday or why they can’t buy cars or iPhones or Nike trainers etc etc etc?

Presumably it’s all the West’s fault but how is that being spun to them?
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Or why they're now dishing out 15 Year prison sentences for not towing the party line.

Aye, it's all a big conspiracy by the west
 
Howard the Duck said:
What’s the Russian State narrative to its people as to why the stock market has disappeared, why they can’t access Twitter or Facebook or Netflix or the BBC, why they’re football teams are no longer competing in Europe or attempting to qualify for the World Cup, why they can’t watch the Premier League, why they suddenly can’t go on holiday or why they can’t buy cars or iPhones or Nike trainers etc etc etc?

Presumably it’s all the West’s fault but how is that being spun to them?
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They're being done up like Kippers.And as we've seen in other countries many will be loving it.
 
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